Wacky cycle...should I BD again tonight?

[Blckhrt]

Okay, having more issues. I'm confused. Help?

Chart: 4f79b5 Ovulation charts on FertilityFriend.com

I assumed I O'd on CD24. FF originally said O was on CD20 but, as soon as I removed that +OPK, it switched it to CD24. Okay, cool, no prob. I typically have a textbook 13-14 day LP so I was expecting AF no sooner than Friday. But...it started TODAY. Which, if I did indeed O on CD24, means my LP was 9 DAYS. CRAP.

Maybe I O'd before my temps showed I did...wishful thinking?
Or, more than likely, something about my sway shortened my LP dramatically. Is this cause for a lot of worry? What do I need to do to re-lengthen it? We've got one more shot this cycle, and then we'll have to put TTC plans aside for a few months. So I REALLY want to maximize my chances of conception this cycle. Would appreciate any perspective/advice.

[atomic sagebrush]

I honestly can't say, because while swaying can make shorter LP, swaying can also mess with temping and it looks very suspicious to me that you Oed on CD 24. I seriously doubt that this is the case. If you look at your temps on CD 23 and 24, see how they are still higher than nearly all your earlier temps?? There is just one that is higher and it is MUCH earlier on, all the subsequent temps are either much lower or equal to the temps from those days. I suspect you Oed CD 21 or 22 somewhere in there and the algorithm is being confused by those couple of higher temps.

What you ahve to keep in the back of your mind is that we are dealing with 1/10 of a degree. That is MINISCULE and could come from shifting position in bed or a warmer/colder room or sleeping with your mouth open. If your temps on CD 23 and 24 would have been one teensy smidge higher then you'd have a clearcut temp shift that would have meshed perfectly with when your pos OPK was.

Now, all that having been said we don't want to rest on our laurels either so please add in a serv. of full fat dairy a day, 4-6 eggs a week, and 1 serv. salmon or red meat (if you don't like salmon) per week. This will help with your LP. I also want you to give me a brief mention of everything you're doing for swaying.

I do want to stress to you, it is VERY important for you to have an attempt closer to ovulation if you want to get pregannt this upcoming month. Your attempts were nowhere near O occuring and that is much worse for conception than a 9 day LP.

[atomic sagebrush]

Ok sorry duh I realized this is a 2 page thread.

I think you should drop vitex and saw palmetto but looking at your chart I think your temp actually DID rise, it just didn't rise that high until 3 days after ovulation. Those temps on CD 23/24 were higher than the bulk of your temps earlier in your cycle, there were only 3 higher or equally high onfes, and one of those was an open circle and untrustworthy.

[Blckhrt]

Haha, no worries! Curse of being at the top of page 2 ::shakes fist::

I see what you're saying. So it's possible swaying shortened my LP, but it's just as possible that it just gave me a slow/staggered rise after ov - right? Hopefully the latter is true; seems like less to worry about!

You still think I should drop Vitex and SP completely? Or I could cut the dose in half...or I could just take them for 1 week...etc. If it was just a slow temp rise I'm not sure about ditching them completely, but I'll trust your opinion.

Yes, this cycle we will definitely try and put our attempt closer to ov - I plan to wait till +OPK now that I know they DO work for me as long as I use them in the afternoon and evening.

My diet is 95-99% vegan right now (I don't sweat the small bit of parmesan in my pesto, or chicken stock in my soup, etc.), although I did have two pretty significant cheats in the last 2 weeks (egg & chorizo for one, schnitzel for the other...mmm!). Do you still think I should add in the dairy/eggs?
I do not do LE to the letter as I have a past history of anorexia, so no counting for me - but it's fairly easy for me to be mostly vegan since I was for a few years in my 20s. (I think I actually miss my vitamins more than non-veg foods; I definitely felt my energy dip when I discontinued prenatals!) I delay breakfast most days but I do not skip it. I'm also a couch potato. Other than that, and the recommended supps, and the one attempt, I can't think of anything else major off the top of my head. Following the ebook pretty closely other than not counting cals/nutrients! And I am at my lowest weight of the last few years (my lowest post-anorexia-recovery weight, in fact), largely thanks to breastfeeding my son. Not too low, though; my BMI is still over 20, probably 21 (for reference, it was 25-26 before my first pregnancy...it was 17-18 when my ED was active). So I have not lost weight since starting my sway in July, but I don't really think I need to.

[atomic sagebrush]

It's possible that swaying gave you a short LP but it is equally possible that the algorithm for FF was confused. I do not think it's a slow temp rise per se just that it's different than what you were used to (and yes, swaying can cause this to happen, with changes in patterns that used to appear set), and the majority of your temps were much, much lower and then there were 2 higher temps that have befuddled the algorithm. The FF program is really not that bright LOL and additionally, we are dealing with 1/10 of a degree here.

Vitex and saw palmetto have both been disappointing with results and caused tons of trouble. They are getting lower than the overall success rates of the site (significantly) meaning that while they are better than 50-50 and I do still think they sway, people who swayed without using them at all, are actually getting better results than those who did. So whenever I see any hint of trouble I recommend dropping them, but that of course is your call to make.

You are doing exactly right, then, with your history, in not tracking the nutrients and just eating vegan mostly. Just exactly what I like to see. But, that having been said that is definitely a reason for a short LP - that lack of animal fat can mess with your body's ability to make progesterone and estrogen and shorten LP, so if you do want to do something preemptively that is still my recommendation.

No weight loss, you are ideal right where you are.

[Blckhrt]

Alright, atomic dearest...I'm on CD15 and watery CM has arrived, so I expect our attempt to happen in 5-7 days hopefully. We're still 99% vegan, and we've dropped Vitex, SP, and LR. I'm just on folate daily and aspirin 4x/week; husband is only on a small dose of cranberry.

Really, really want this attempt to work! But I also really, really want my girl. So with those two competing things in mind, I have 3 questions in the lead-up.

1. What's the current thinking on Rephresh? I used one about 3 days ago. Should I use another this week?
2. Should I go ahead and take a Benadryl before my attempt? I don't want to dry up TOO much, of course, but if you still believe it helps sway girl...
3. My husband is just a few months shy of 40. Last month he did daily FR leading up to our attempt, but this month I haven't pushed it as much. How important do you think it is, especially in light of his age?

Thank you!

[atomic sagebrush]

Question - why in 5-7 days?? Please keep in mind that your patterns of EWCM and O Day can change at any time evne without swaying and swaying also does seem to trigger it so be on the lookout for Oing earlier than you think.

1)Our stats have seemed to indicate it is neutral - does not help or hurt a pink sway but does cut odds of conception. It is up to you, I personally think it's among the first things to drop since it does nothing to help and does prevent conception with the one attempt (which does seem to work)

2) Same as above. Has not seemed to help, does cut odds of conception, thus among the things that I do like people to drop at some point (before adding attempts, to be sure) You could also compromise and pick one or the other, RepH. or Benadryl, to drop now and then in another month if you needed to you could drop the other.

3)Again, sounding a bit like a broken record, but results seem to indicate FR is not doing much if anything, it is a huge pain in the butt, and also cuts odds of conception (probably more than either RepHresh or Benadryl). So I would probably just have him "do what he does" if he hasn't been into it and neither have you. Or you could have him release every 2-4 days if you prefer for possibly better odds of conception. Totally up to you.

[Blckhrt]

That's true, 5-7 days was just my guess since I tend to O between CD 20 and 23. But I understand that can easily change. As of yesterday I'm taking OPK's at 2/3pm + at/before bedtime to keep an eye out.

That's all VERY good to know, thank you so much! Sounds like there's no point even bothering with Rephresh or Benadryl, then. And I will tell hubby that if he's been doing FR, he can ease up.

We'll focus on staying mostly vegan (and sans vitamins) + one attempt at +OPK. I guess that's it... I hope that's enough!

[Blckhrt]

In thinking a bit more about this...do you think 2 OPKs a day is enough? I could do 11am, 4pm, and 9pm instead of 2pm/9pm if you think that's wiser.

And two more quick Qs:
1. J&D - I'm guessing I should refrain to maximize chances of conception. I don't want to lay there forever, though, so I'm thinking of giving it 10 minutes and then carrying on and cleaning up?
2. Deep release? Does position really matter?

Also I forgot to mention two things:
1. Both hubby and I had a cold last week and are still a bit sniffly.
2. I've been on Wellbutrin for about 6 months. (I weaned off it several months before conceiving my son, and didn't resume it till this year.) Does Wellbutrin/bupropion by chance sway girl?

Thanks again for all your help!

[atomic sagebrush]

I know it feels so counterintuitive but focusing on just doing what really works and letting go of the rest, is what is getting us best results. The people with the kitchen sink sways are getting opposites. Diet, one attempt, exercise if you're doing it, those things are getting it done. All the rest of it does, is prevent conception and drive ya loopy.

TBH regarding the OPK I'd prob. just do ONE the 2 pm one and then if it seems to be getting darker, start with 2. I don't want you to stop doing the 2 pm in favor of 11/4 as 11 can be too early for some and 4 too late for some. 2 is right in the wheelhouse.

I like j and d after 5 minutes. not right away, I think it cuts odds of conception too much. 10 is ok too. Our results did seem to show slight improvement with j and d (and although I don't know this for a fact, since I recommend after 5 minutes, I suspect most of those people are doing 5 minutes and not immediately) so 5-10 to start, maybe don't go right to 30.

Shallow release is not working. I have had several people this last year who were not getting pregnant and I was trying everything in my bag of tricks (up to and including sperm analysis!) only to find out that for some reason they had dropped everything else and kept doing shallow release and forgot to mention that. THen they dropped it and got pregnant right away. It has never been proven to sway and I would just have normal intercourse. Positions are one of those "old wives tale" things that I keep around just cause I can but probably not worth anything really.

Being sick may sway pink and so may Wellbutrin.