Question about hormones and Vitex

[JJ66]

Hi! So, I'm not currently swaying (my last was a failed sway), but I have a question about taking Vitex. I don't know yet if we'll try to conceive a 4th, if we'll go high-tech, or if I'll try another sway. In the meantime though, I'm not on BC.

A little background: In my early 20's, I had a very irregular cycle, no ovulation, in fact, and no period for several years. I was put on several different meds/hormones to try to get me ovulating (Clomid, progesterone, premarin, etc). Nothing worked. I eventually tried Vitex, and my period came back, and eventually ovulation (after years of nothing!) The doctor never pinpointed the issue. Then I got married, and had no issue getting pregnant (3 times).

So, here I am. My cycle is very regular, but I'm starting to get bad hormonal acne. I had this skin problem in my 20's when I wasn't ovulating. It clears up when I'm on BC, when I'm pregnant, and when I'm nursing. I'm considering taking the Vitex now to help balance my hormones and clear up my skin.

My question is: what's the reason it's advised just to take it AF-O? Is it for risk of being on it while pregnant? If I'm not TTC, is it okay to take it every day? I don't want to screw up my cycle too much, considering we may try again, or do IVF. If anyone is a Vitex pro, please advise!

Also, if this should be posted somewhere else, please let know.

[atomic sagebrush]

I do want to mention that not ovulating on Clomid is exceedingly rare. I doubt it would happen again to you and without knowing more I can't really speculate as to the reasons why.

Vitex WILL screw up your cycle. I don't recommend it for anyone who has a regular cycle and I REALLY don't want anyone who's considering going IVF to go onto Vitex.

What ~may~ be happening is that you have some tendencies towards PCOS and vitex has been known to help some people in that boat. But we have better things for that now (see below) I would suggest going to a dermatologist and seeing if you can get on spirolactone for the acne. It's a testosterone lowering medication and has helped a few people who were swaying pink as well. Metformin is another medication that they can give you that will really help. all the herbs are, is lamer, ineffective versions of those two things and I figure you may as well do what really works.

As for the rest of it, I think we discussed this via PM already but if you're ready to consider swaying, I want you on one of the diets in this thread - 5 from the top, atomic fertility diet, the one for people who may go HT. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...rt-3-pcos.html

If you AREN'T ready to go that route, I want you on a higher protein, lower carb diet such as The Zone or South Beach because carbs are not your friend here.

I also suggest that rather than vitex, you try myo-inositol instead. Such as Pregnitude or any other brand 500 mg a day to start with, upping to 1000 if you can tolerate it. (pregnitude has way more than this so you may want to only use half)

To answer your specific question, the reason vitex is AF-O is becuase it's delayed or stopped ovulation for quite a few people when taken all month long. You can take it all month, but stopping it at O (and "at O" means BEFORE you expect to O, because if you keep taking it, you may not ovulate while contining it) means you have the whole second half of your cycle (when your hormones change regularly anyway) to let your body normalize.

[JJ66]

Thank you, Atomic, this is really helpful! One more question: does Pregnitude or myo-inositol sway blue?

[atomic sagebrush]

No, they sway pink!

[JJ66]

Great! I'm surprised though...seems like based on all things I've learned about swaying pink, anything that's "fertility boosting" would be for blue!

[atomic sagebrush]

There is more than one way to think about "fertility" though. There is fertility in the ability of sperm to meet egg (this is the part that we truly think is swaying pink) and then there's the ability of the human body to ovulate properly and make healthy eggs. Additionally there are two reasons why ovulation goes wonky - one is too few hormones (dieting too strict, too much exercise, etc) and the other is (simplifying here) too MANY hormones - that's basically what PCOS is, is too many hormones - namely testosterone, and for some people also estrogen. They make so much testosterone and oftentimes estrogen they don't have enough raw materials left over to make progesterone. So many hormones that it basically screws up your body's ability to ovulate regularly. People's ovulation goes missing, their LP gets short, they have tons of cysts in their ovaries, the eggs they do make and release are not as good. So what we need to do in that case is do things that lower hormones overall. Vitex does this (not well), inositol does this, spirolactone does this, Metformin does this in a different way by lowering blood sugar which in turn lowers testosterone freeing up more hormones for other things and prevents the cysts from forming.

So for people who are struggling with fertility due to PCOS or PCO tendencies (because you don't need to have the syndrome to have this issue) they can be helped things that in a normal person could cause them problems. IT's not really "boosting" fertility, it's not really improving it exactly, it's interfering with too much of a good thing, like if the music is too loud and you put on a pair of earmuffs to block it out.

Now, back to the ability of sperm to meet egg - too many hormones do not prevent sperm from meeting egg. Oftentimes women with PCO tendencies will make plenty of EWCM and have so many surges trying to trigger ovulation from ovaries that are confused LOL that they'll have gobs and gobs of OPK tests that are positive (women who are low in hormones will have to go on and on and on while their bodies scrimp and save up enough hormones for one measly surge!!) But the eggs may not be good, and O is so delayed and irregular that many times people will miss the egg (even if it is good), and even if they hit the egg, the progesterone level is so low that they'll have a short LP and their period will come before implantation can occur. They can be both blue friendly, and have trouble getting pregnant because of too much of a good thing.

So, while I understand it's all very confusing, things like myoinositol and vitex can BOTH lower fertility, sway pink, but at the same time, help people who are struggling due to PCOS to get pregnant.

[JJ66]

That makes a lot of sense. It's weird to go from no ovulation or period for years, to what seems to be SUPER ovulation (all the EWCM!). I'd asked the doctor many times if I could have PCOS and he said I definitely didn't (my numbers/blood test would've said I did). And I never had ovarian cysts. But nothing was ever explained. I just know there's an imbalance in some way though. Why else the deep cystic acne around the jawline? And it's right around ovulation, NOT PMS.

Either way, I'm going to follow your advice and start with the Pregnitude (half dose, perhaps) and see where that gets me. Thank you, as always, for your wisdom!

[JJ66]

That makes a lot of sense. It's weird to go from no ovulation or period for years, to what seems to be SUPER ovulation (all the EWCM!). I'd asked the doctor many times if I could have PCOS and he said I definitely didn't (my numbers/blood test would've said I did). And I never had ovarian cysts. But nothing was ever explained. I just know there's an imbalance in some way though. Why else the deep cystic acne around the jawline? And it's right around ovulation, NOT PMS.

Either way, I'm going to follow your advice and start with the Pregnitude (half dose, perhaps) and see where that gets me. Thank you, as always, for your wisdom!

[atomic sagebrush]

And if your diet and lifestyle had supported it strongly enough, the chances are that you'd have gone on to develop the cysts and stuff. It's believed that possibly as many as 75% of all women have the genetic potential to develop PCOS but most of our lifestyles don't activate that potential. It's to do with the modern lifestyle - in 1935 when it was first described in medical literature it was an unbelievably rare thing that very few people have. But higher intake of refined carbs, higher weight, and less physical labor (plus some other possible things like environmental pollutants and delayed childbearing) have started basically causing more and more to get the syndrome, and others who don't have the syndrome, to still have things like you're describing and if you had gone a little farther down the continuum you may have ended up developing it.

[JJ66]

If it comes to it, do you recommend for or against taking Spironolactone and the Pregnitude together?