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  1. #1
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    Supplements and progesterone question! Blue sway

    Hello, this is my first post on the site but I've been an avid reader for quite some time now! It's a great community And I'm hoping Atomic will see this and help me

    I have a question about supplements and also progesterone - and would really appreciate some help. I started TTC Blue in May after two recurrent miscarriages; one at 8 weeks and one at 5 weeks. I already have a daughter, born two years ago, who I conceived without complication. I don't understand the reason behind the miscarriages, but found both devastating.

    Prior to starting TTC, I upped my supplement intake in line with Blue Sway recommendations. So I was taking daily: 2000mg Folate, 700ug folic acid (300ug in Centrum plus 400ug), probiotic, COQ10, fish oils (1000mg spaced). I got a BFP a few weeks ago which would make me almost 5 weeks pregnant now.

    Also, because of the recurrent miscarriages, my gynaecologist prescribed me 400mg Cyclogest (a progesterone pessary) to take only once the pregnancy has been confirmed as viable - i.e. once a heartbeat has been seen. I have a scan booked for 2 weeks time for this purpose.

    My questions are:

    1. What should my supplement doses now be after BFP? Specifically, what mix of folate and folic acid? I planned to stick to 2000mg Folate then wean off after 12 weeks. Should I also stick to 700ug folic acid until 12 weeks, then wean down to 300ug (what is in the Centrum) or should I wean down to 300ug now? I keep reading about dangers of taking too much folic acid! And I can't find examples of any other posters taking this exact mix.
    2. I'm continuing to take probiotic and DVT fish oils 2 a day (I switched to a pregnancy brand) plus Centrum - is this ok?
    3. Does anyone have experience of taking Cyclogest to support a pregnancy after recurrent miscarriage / any thoughts on this? If I can avoid taking a hormone, I will, but I live in daily fear of miscarrying again. I'm still unclear on the science of taking progesterone at 7 weeks gestation, when I thought the placenta took over, and keep reading contradictory info online...

    Many thanks in advance,

    Ruby

  2. #2
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    That is quite an unusual timing with the Cyclogest. Most people start it 3 days past ovulation! I am immensely puzzled by that suggestion and have not ever seen a doctor give a woman progesterone in that combination.

    I gave you thorough directions on your folic acid/folate in your other thread.

    How much fish oil?? Too much fish oil may be harmful to your pregnancy.
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  3. #3
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    Hey Atomic, thank you again for your reply. If Iím honest, I canít get many real answers out the gynaecologist at all - itís been a very frustrating experience. She has repeatedly insisting that I should only take progesterone supplements if this is a Ďviable pregnancyí ie if a heartbeat has been seen. Yet I look at Internet forums and, like you say, they are full of women who have been offered it even prior to pregnancyÖ

    Iím finding it hard to wait and keep wondering if I should run out and get it sooner to avoid another miscarriage or if perhaps I can avoid taking it altogether. Iíve read some things about potential side effects to the fetus, like autism, which worry me. Also nothing seems definitive. It doesnít seem like itís been tested over an extensive period of timeÖ?

    Re fish oils, I bought Nordic Naturals Prenatal DHA tablets which contain:
    Vitamin D3 400IU (I already take 1000IU as well due to low bone density)
    Total Omega 3s is 830mg:
    EPA 205mg
    DHA 480mg
    Other Omega 3s 145mg

    The serving size is 2 tablets daily. I only started recently - is this amount ok do you think? As itís a prenatal fish oil I assumed it was ok.

    Before starting these, I was taking a 1000mg Fish Oil Omega 3 tablet every other day. And I already eat salmon a few times a week if I can, not sure if thatís relevantÖ

    Any advice on this would be so appreciated thank you so much x

  4. #4
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    Oh trust me, I'm aware of that. The doctors seem to just want us to come in, sit in the office for 2 minutes, and then go away again without having any questions or concerns. We are all in this boat and it's enormously frustrating.

    If you get to seven weeks the odds are sky high your pregnancy is working out just fine and you have no need whatsoever for progesterone supps. While it's your call, personally I would skip them as you're quite right, the placenta is already starting to begin to take over for the corpus luteum, so any failure of the corpus luteum to make progesterone (which is the reason for prog supps anyway!) would not matter at that point.

    As for side effects, keep in mind that sometimes people are prescribed medications because of issues that may then coincidentally make them more likely to have issues (such as a baby with autism). Lots of people have used the progesterone supplements - for instance, in IVF pregnancies, everyone uses them - and had normal, healthy babies. So I would try not to overthink that, because so many of these studies sound terrifying but then are overturned with more research.

    The vitamin peddlers are going WAY overboard with blood thinners. Too much of things that thin the blood, like fish oil, is harmful not only to a pregnancy but also to YOU personally, as it can create bleeding issues, excessive bruising, super heavy periods which can deplete your iron, and even bleeding in your brain and stomach that can be fatal. Fortunately that's not a sky high dose but I strongly urge you to take but just ONE of those, not the 2-pill suggestion. I have seen people develop subchorionic hemorrhage under their placenta using the Nordic Naturals. This is why I prefer you guys to stay under 500 mg because we don't see the issues with that dose for most people. Just one pill is enough DHA for the baby, for a blue sway, and is not going to cause those side effects in most cases (though if you do notice bleeding issues of any sort let me know and we'll dial it back even more) Or you can take the 800 every other day, but I prefer you guys to take the lower dose daily.
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  6. #5
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    Thank you so much! I will definitely reduce my intake to one fish oil tablet a day. Would you recommend continuing that level throughout? I forgot to mention before, but I also take iron regularly as I'm anaemic - one tablet of Ferrous Fumerate every morning. I thought this would be important to keep up as well at the moment, but please correct me if I'm wrong

    And yes, that has been exactly my experience. In fact, it seems to irritate my consultant when I ask questions, as if I am questioning her judgement, but I'm just trying to understand the rationale as trying to get pregnant and then sustain that pregnancy is a very big deal! She just reiterates that it's safe and I should take it once I know it's viable.

    In all honesty, I'd rather not start it if I can help it, so your words are a relief. I'm just praying this pregnancy works out without it. I suppose I initially thought there must be an issue with me and my hormones to lose two pregnancies in a row. But I have felt a little more confident this time after getting all of the supplements recommended and upping my folate so much so thank you for that. Finding this site when I was at my lowest ebb was such a big help to me x

  7. #6
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    yes absolutely please continue the iron.

    That level of fish oil is safe during pregnancy as well.

    I must admit I really don't understand their attitudes, we're hiring them to do a job for us and a part of that job is explaining things to our satisfaction, but for some reason we're treated like this nuisance! I mean, we're in your office for what - 5 minutes, tops, in many cases - keep your attitude under control, if you would please. It's enormously frustrating from our patient's end of the relationship.

    Sometimes I feel like the docs don't think of pregnancies as being "human lives" and are very flip about losses, as if they shouldn't matter to us. But we are mothers doing whatever we can in our power to save our children! There's nothing surprising or unusual about that, and we should be treated respectfully.

    If you do (G-d forbid) have another loss, at that point we must pursue some testing to rule some things out. But they won't typically do this till there have been three losses back to back. I do want to assure you that people do have 2 and even more losses and then go on to have healthy normal pregnancies after that point in time. So this is by no means indicative of any bigger problem necessarily, and the odds are very good you will be able to have a successful pregnancy soon.
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  8. #7
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    Yes this has been completely my experience - not a great one with consultants at all. I'm really praying that I'm not heading towards another loss, but then the other ones came so out of the blue for me. Every trip to the toilet - especially in the night - is very fraught to say the least!

    I know it may seem silly that I tried to sway after the losses, but then as I wanted to sway blue anyway, it seemed that the general consensus is that making yourself more fertile is the same as swaying blue! I did just want to ask one more question which has been annoying me.... so I misread the serving size on the Carnitine tablets I got for my partner. Instead of giving him a 1000mg dose daily, I was giving him half that (500mg daily) for around 4 weeks before TTC. I only realised my mistake a few days before I ovulated, and upped his amount to 1000mg for just a few days before we followed the blue sway pattern (DTD on first day of positive OPK, twice the next day, and once the day after).

    Obviously being able to keep a pregnancy is the most important thing, but I'm just wondering is this half-dose error could have messed up my sway?! As well as Carnitine, he was taking COQ10 (like me!), fish oils spaced, probiotic, Centrum Men 50+, vitamin D....

    It's just really annoying me that I still have a massive bottle of Carnitine pills unused! Should have read the label properly :s

    Thanks so much xx

  9. #8
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    Yes with my final pregnancy I expected all through the entire pregnancy to see bleeding every time I went to the bathroom!!! Even at the end when everything seemed OK I just couldn't believe it was happening. So nervewracking. hang in there!

    Yes that's right, there's nothing wrong with swaying blue because swaying blue entails doing everything you'd do to prevent another loss anyway.

    500 mg carnitine is ok too. It's no dealbreaker at all. It's still more than he was getting before! There's no real reason we use 1000, it's more that is the proven safe upper amount, that's all.
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  10. #9
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    Thanks Atomic, Iíve so appreciated your replies. Currently suffering from very bad (hopefully morning!) sickness. I have a scan in a week and Iíll let you know how everything pans out.

    Thanks again for your kindness & wisdom

    Ruby xxx

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  12. #10
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    Feel better soon! Keep me posted and FX for good news with baby!
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