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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skippy View Post
    I know this is very old but the comment BD 1 day before O with one attempt sways boy 65% is a bit scary. It mentions 1 day before O with numerous attempts sways girl 69%. For our BFP we did one attempt as we thought this was most important factor. Any thoughts of the validity of this post?
    If you're referring to Minerva's timing stuff, since the original point in time that I replied to this thread last, it has been proven to my satisfaction that going back through FF charts (which is what she did to compile her statistics) does not and cannot work since you cannot pin down day of ovulation with any better than 1 in 3 chances. Studies done with highly trained NFP experts proved that even THEY could not get O day right any better than 1 in 3 days with temping. And most of the people using FF are not highly trained experts. So, her data is unfortunately not reliable. NFP methods are great for achieving pregnancy or avoiding pregnancy but they cannot be used to pin down the day of ovulation any better than really, random chance.

    I will take a study done by scientists using blood tests and ultrasound to pinpoint time of ovulation 100% accurately over a (while extremely well done and thorough) study done using FF data with no verification of anything, as a much better source of information. And those studies found timing does not sway and 50-50 boys and girls are conceived every day of the cycle.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasmor View Post
    sorry but is the conclusion is that timing does not matter at all ?
    and abstinence ?
    Neither timing nor abstinence is seeming to sway. Many people want to include them and that is at your discretion.

    http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...le-timing.html
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by skippy View Post
    I know this is very old but the comment BD 1 day before O with one attempt sways boy 65% is a bit scary. It mentions 1 day before O with numerous attempts sways girl 69%. For our BFP we did one attempt as we thought this was most important factor. Any thoughts of the validity of this post?
    Serious question though and I'm not offended, just curious - do you think I"m trying to steer you wrong? I really, really WANT your guys' sways to work, and so I work very hard to monitor and track and read all this stuff (the amount of time I'm here visibly posting on the site is actually only about 50% of the time I put into it) and based on my observations since 2008 when I started researching this, including having read all Minerva's research, I stand by my recommendation of one attempt. I understand why you guys ask about these things but I am at a loss why somehow my word becomes less valid because of one post, yk?? Our results show one attempt to be a great pink sway, all of which come from actual people on this site who you can message and/or read their sways. Who knows who these people are posting on FF? Were they swaying in other ways?? Are they even telling the truth? We don't know and again, that is why actual studies done in labs by scientists are so much more valid.

    The thing about one attempt was a bit of a revelation. We started off thinking (as everyone did) that it was pH, frequency, even timing (I stayed open to timing even though it certainly hadn't worked for me) and never even GUESSED that number of attempts might sway. So we were keeping those things and adding attempts (including MANY people who had many attempts with a cutoff) and our results were AWFUL. I seriously considered giving up because we were barely getting better than 50-50 for pink. The only people who had good results were only those who did one attempt (or had been on diet 12 weeks or longer). One attempt was so much better than anything else that I had an a-ha moment and started recommending one attempt and then later e4d, while dropping ALL other sway tactics before adding attempts. Since I did that, our results have improved steadily. The one attempt numbers have declined a little bit over this past year, but that's to be expected when lots of people start using a sway tactic (including people doing very light sways otherwise) One attempt has been great for us since 2011. It also explains the apparent success of some of these timing things when they are shown in studies that 50-50 b and G are conceived every day of the cycle - one attempt is how you're supposed to do Shettles cutoff and also O+12 so that is why they seem to work.

    If I had it to do over again I'd have taken a screenshot that proves all this to everyone but unfortunately I didn't think of that at the time. But the results with one attempt were 75% and the results with 2 were 60%, the results with 3 were 40% (yes, you're reading that right, 40% girls with three attempts even with doing frequency, jelly, timing) At the same time, the blue swayers who insisted on doing one attempt on day of O for SHettles were also getting 40% boys, 60% girls. IT was glaringly obvious that one attempt was swaying hugely.

    The benefit of having me doing this for so long is that I can be kind of an eye in the sky and witness these trends and then we adjust accordingly.
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  5. #34
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    Thanks for your reply Atomic. I see how much time you put into this site and the effort you put in trying to help people. I drive myself a bit crazy with second guessing. Earlier this year out of interest I bought a book on Shettles as well as the French Gender Diet and read them right through. I pretty much forgot about the details in Shettles as everyone made it pretty clear it was mostly hocus pocus so I just forgot about it. Now that my sway is done I went to throw the Shettles book in the bin... and then was stupid and had a quick look at the main points. I realise I shouldn't have done this - it's now in the bin and I think it's time for me to have a break from the Internet too. These books are written with such conviction that I find I get a bit sucked into it all. Two of my closest friends told me they're having girls this week too - and one did the Shettles idea. So obviously this proves nothing with a sample size of one Shettles attempt, but I'm just not feeling great at the moment. Any little thing seems to worry me and I feel like everyone will get a girl except me. I'm going to make a big effort this week to distract myself. Time to walk the dog! Thanks again for your help, I'll try to stay off the site until I have the sway result and can enter it in the stats. Will be in touch in a few weeks!

  6. #35
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    I completely understand and I hope it came across I was asking out of sheer curiosity and not any kind of offense whatsoever. I am always happy to explain why I recommend the things I do, I just am curious where people's concerns are coming from, so I can tailor my responses accordingly. Some people think that I make recommendations because I'm attempting to sell something unique or trying to be different from other sites - but this isn't the case, if they were right I'd happily do things their way LOL, but I got 4 timing opposites. !! Additionally, there is genuine reasoning (explained above) about why we changed to one attempt. i TOTALLY know how hard it is to let go of this stuff when everyone is saying something else - after all, even though I had always had tons of dairy with my boys and took supplemental calcium with DS 3 I STILL took it with DS 4 LOL. I get it, I really do.

    I know we talked about this a bit more in PM but just for others' benefit - Dr. Shettles died many years ago and he was like 100 when he died. The people selling books under his name for at least 2 decades if not more, are not him. I believe with every fiber of my being that if he were alive and not elderly he would have come out against it by now because it just can't work the way he said it did.
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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    I completely understand and I hope it came across I was asking out of sheer curiosity and not any kind of offense whatsoever. I am always happy to explain why I recommend the things I do, I just am curious where people's concerns are coming from, so I can tailor my responses accordingly. Some people think that I make recommendations because I'm attempting to sell something unique or trying to be different from other sites - but this isn't the case, if they were right I'd happily do things their way LOL, but I got 4 timing opposites. !! Additionally, there is genuine reasoning (explained above) about why we changed to one attempt. i TOTALLY know how hard it is to let go of this stuff when everyone is saying something else - after all, even though I had always had tons of dairy with my boys and took supplemental calcium with DS 3 I STILL took it with DS 4 LOL. I get it, I really do.

    I know we talked about this a bit more in PM but just for others' benefit - Dr. Shettles died many years ago and he was like 100 when he died. The people selling books under his name for at least 2 decades if not more, are not him. I believe with every fiber of my being that if he were alive and not elderly he would have come out against it by now because it just can't work the way he said it did.
    My two cents: Anyone questioning anything, me included, I think almost always is rooted in our own anxieties :/ (see: me suddenly trusting in a random OWT?! What the &#^@!...)

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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    Serious question though and I'm not offended, just curious - do you think I"m trying to steer you wrong? I really, really WANT your guys' sways to work, and so I work very hard to monitor and track and read all this stuff (the amount of time I'm here visibly posting on the site is actually only about 50% of the time I put into it) and based on my observations since 2008 when I started researching this, including having read all Minerva's research, I stand by my recommendation of one attempt. I understand why you guys ask about these things but I am at a loss why somehow my word becomes less valid because of one post, yk?? Our results show one attempt to be a great pink sway, all of which come from actual people on this site who you can message and/or read their sways. Who knows who these people are posting on FF? Were they swaying in other ways?? Are they even telling the truth? We don't know and again, that is why actual studies done in labs by scientists are so much more valid.

    The thing about one attempt was a bit of a revelation. We started off thinking (as everyone did) that it was pH, frequency, even timing (I stayed open to timing even though it certainly hadn't worked for me) and never even GUESSED that number of attempts might sway. So we were keeping those things and adding attempts (including MANY people who had many attempts with a cutoff) and our results were AWFUL. I seriously considered giving up because we were barely getting better than 50-50 for pink. The only people who had good results were only those who did one attempt (or had been on diet 12 weeks or longer). One attempt was so much better than anything else that I had an a-ha moment and started recommending one attempt and then later e4d, while dropping ALL other sway tactics before adding attempts. Since I did that, our results have improved steadily. The one attempt numbers have declined a little bit over this past year, but that's to be expected when lots of people start using a sway tactic (including people doing very light sways otherwise) One attempt has been great for us since 2011. It also explains the apparent success of some of these timing things when they are shown in studies that 50-50 b and G are conceived every day of the cycle - one attempt is how you're supposed to do Shettles cutoff and also O+12 so that is why they seem to work.

    If I had it to do over again I'd have taken a screenshot that proves all this to everyone but unfortunately I didn't think of that at the time. But the results with one attempt were 75% and the results with 2 were 60%, the results with 3 were 40% (yes, you're reading that right, 40% girls with three attempts even with doing frequency, jelly, timing) At the same time, the blue swayers who insisted on doing one attempt on day of O for SHettles were also getting 40% boys, 60% girls. IT was glaringly obvious that one attempt was swaying hugely.

    The benefit of having me doing this for so long is that I can be kind of an eye in the sky and witness these trends and then we adjust accordingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    I completely understand and I hope it came across I was asking out of sheer curiosity and not any kind of offense whatsoever. I am always happy to explain why I recommend the things I do, I just am curious where people's concerns are coming from, so I can tailor my responses accordingly. Some people think that I make recommendations because I'm attempting to sell something unique or trying to be different from other sites - but this isn't the case, if they were right I'd happily do things their way LOL, but I got 4 timing opposites. !! Additionally, there is genuine reasoning (explained above) about why we changed to one attempt. i TOTALLY know how hard it is to let go of this stuff when everyone is saying something else - after all, even though I had always had tons of dairy with my boys and took supplemental calcium with DS 3 I STILL took it with DS 4 LOL. I get it, I really do.

    I know we talked about this a bit more in PM but just for others' benefit - Dr. Shettles died many years ago and he was like 100 when he died. The people selling books under his name for at least 2 decades if not more, are not him. I believe with every fiber of my being that if he were alive and not elderly he would have come out against it by now because it just can't work the way he said it did.
    Now that you mention this... I purchased the "revised version" of the Dr. Shettles - as in the very latest version in January of this year.. And if shettles died so long ago, (im assuming before this revised version) - then who was actually involved in this newest/latest addition, Lol!

    Happy with my crew and no more are due xx

  11. #38
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    Im sorry you don't know me . I just came across this site and accidentally read what you said about 1 time = more girls
    i m preg right now and if i have a girl this is going to agree with what you are saying. i have 2 boys and both times 3+ times dtd before O. This time only once about 5 days before ovulation . if i have a girl the amount of times of BD would be the only thing i did diferrent this time.

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  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwaway_panther View Post
    My two cents: Anyone questioning anything, me included, I think almost always is rooted in our own anxieties :/ (see: me suddenly trusting in a random OWT?! What the &#^@!...)
    I do get that. I totally understand that. Please believe me when I say I have totally been there and I DO know. It just makes me curious. I guess what I'm curious about is if people just need reassurance/explanation, or if they think I'm mistaken or didn't know about this, or acting rashly or selfishly. Maybe don't realize the level of my involvement in the site and how much time and research I do and have put into it all for the last 8 1/2 years and may be operating out of ignorance or a snap judgement based on only a handful of stats. I do passionately want everyone to get their desired gender (and that is why I do this every day instead of taking up crochet or something). I can't make it all agree, if I would, I could, because it would be SOOO much easier for me to just do the old school stuff only better (and I could probably make 5x as much money if I had) - but I just couldn't reconcile that with what the reality seems to be.

    OR, I do know that there is a minority that suspects I'm actively trying to mislead. There have been a few people who have accused me of trying to mislead them in order to have a different product to sell or something along those lines and unfortunately there are a few people who like to put that myth forward, usually competitors or those who got opposites. But seriously, not only would it save me a lot of time and make me more $ if I were to agree with the old school stuff (because the fact that I don't makes me lose a huge number of people right from the get go) - I would actually LOVE to do it for free. I used to do it for free when the site started and it was better for me because I could take a vacation haha. But it's this or back to work, and if I did work I wouldn't have time to do it and 80% of my money would go to the day care.

    So, occasionally I just get curious where people's heads are at. Taking on Shettles is a lot like rolling a boulder up a hill - while it's a labor of love, it is something that I am apparently destined to spend 75% of my time doing again and again only to have it undone the next day. It is helpful to have that feedback about people's thought processes so I can keep doing that without losing heart really - it goes down a lot easier if people just need reassurance which I'm always happy to give, I never expect anyone to just take what I say on good faith, of course, than if it's coming across that I'm either someone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, or a person who just likes to be different for the sake of being different without any real reason, or some kind of a moneygrubber "just trying to sell something different than Shettles" if that makes any sense.

    he reason I do all this is because that stuff didn't work for me and 1,234,567,890 people back on IG and we were told that it was our fault because "we did it wrong". There are people who are very dear to me, who I started off with back on IG who still have not had a baby and probably never will because of this timing nonsense. Others had opposites after 1-2 years of timing. I just want as many people as possible to get their DG safely, sanely, and quickly without squandering years of fertility on stuff that doesn't even sway.
    Last edited by atomic sagebrush; May 22nd, 2016 at 03:55 PM.
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