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  1. #11
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    A lot of us notice our periods get lighter on the sway diet. Please don't worry that is in any way sinister or will prevent conception (some people stress over this) that is still in entirely normal range, and your period actually tells you what happened LAST month, not in the upcoming month you're about to try, anyway.

    Are you counting the calories, protein, and fat in low carb veg (like bok choi, etc) and protein and fat in fruit and high carb veg (like potato)? If so, don't. Fruit and high carb veg are free for protein and fat, and low carb veg are free for everything. So if you were using them to get your limits you actually need to eat a bit more.'

    Rice is totally fine! It is by far and away more fertility friendly than white bread, cookies, pastry, that kind of thing. No worries about that whatsoever.

    Tofu is fine, eggs are fine too. It's the limits that matter, not the foods per se.
    Normally I have people keep soy foods to 2-3 times per week as it does have that mild estrogenic effect, but most people are eating those highly processed soy protein foods and not good old tofu. Plus you are accustomed to it. I'd go right ahead with that.

    Long story short, if you were worried about LE Diet becuase of rice and tofu, no need to be! All good within limits.

    yes you absolutely can conceive with a short LP. Plus, just like with a period, your LP tells you what happened LAST month, not the future months, so even if you had a mighty short LP the previous month (say, 7 days, where I do start to have concerns, not 9+) there is no guarantee that would hold the NEXT month and that's when you're going to be trying anyway.

    I'm ok with you using Clomid this month as it does seem your cycle is back again. You could even split the 50 mg into 25 mg and have enough for two months, though it is obviously less effective at that dose. CD 3-7 is when I normally suggest starting this but you can start it as late as CD 5 since we may be that far along already.

    I think you probably should just stay the course and keep trying (adding in Clomid if yo'ud like). Please don't focus on "what can we do to increase odds of a sticky baby" because many of the things people do and take in this scenario actually do NOTHING to help and the majority of those things cause more harm than good, disrupting the cycle, even stopping ovulation, and adding to the chances of future chemicals by interfering with your body in ways we don't even totally understand.

    There's no need for your husband to take a multivitamin. If these chemicals were caused by anything other than sheer bad luck (which happens all the time! So much has to go perfectly for a pregnancy to occur and it may just not have worked out) it is highly unlikely that your husband not taking a vitamin had anything to do with that. I would have him release every 2-4 days, sure. That will make a lot of healthy sperm.

    What were you guys planning to do in terms of attempts??
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    A lot of us notice our periods get lighter on the sway diet. Please don't worry that is in any way sinister or will prevent conception (some people stress over this) that is still in entirely normal range, and your period actually tells you what happened LAST month, not in the upcoming month you're about to try, anyway.

    Are you counting the calories, protein, and fat in low carb veg (like bok choi, etc) and protein and fat in fruit and high carb veg (like potato)? If so, don't. Fruit and high carb veg are free for protein and fat, and low carb veg are free for everything. So if you were using them to get your limits you actually need to eat a bit more.'

    Rice is totally fine! It is by far and away more fertility friendly than white bread, cookies, pastry, that kind of thing. No worries about that whatsoever.

    Tofu is fine, eggs are fine too. It's the limits that matter, not the foods per se.
    Normally I have people keep soy foods to 2-3 times per week as it does have that mild estrogenic effect, but most people are eating those highly processed soy protein foods and not good old tofu. Plus you are accustomed to it. I'd go right ahead with that.

    Long story short, if you were worried about LE Diet becuase of rice and tofu, no need to be! All good within limits.

    yes you absolutely can conceive with a short LP. Plus, just like with a period, your LP tells you what happened LAST month, not the future months, so even if you had a mighty short LP the previous month (say, 7 days, where I do start to have concerns, not 9+) there is no guarantee that would hold the NEXT month and that's when you're going to be trying anyway.

    I'm ok with you using Clomid this month as it does seem your cycle is back again. You could even split the 50 mg into 25 mg and have enough for two months, though it is obviously less effective at that dose. CD 3-7 is when I normally suggest starting this but you can start it as late as CD 5 since we may be that far along already.

    I think you probably should just stay the course and keep trying (adding in Clomid if yo'ud like). Please don't focus on "what can we do to increase odds of a sticky baby" because many of the things people do and take in this scenario actually do NOTHING to help and the majority of those things cause more harm than good, disrupting the cycle, even stopping ovulation, and adding to the chances of future chemicals by interfering with your body in ways we don't even totally understand.

    There's no need for your husband to take a multivitamin. If these chemicals were caused by anything other than sheer bad luck (which happens all the time! So much has to go perfectly for a pregnancy to occur and it may just not have worked out) it is highly unlikely that your husband not taking a vitamin had anything to do with that. I would have him release every 2-4 days, sure. That will make a lot of healthy sperm.

    What were you guys planning to do in terms of attempts??
    Thanks for your response! Yes, I have been counting every calorie. I will stop counting the veggies and fruits, thanks! Should I be counting the tofu?
    I know you said that your menses and LP are indicators of last cycle, what do you mean by that? Does that indicate a hormonal or lining issue from last cycle if it's different or off?
    I wasn't sure and since I'm now at the end of CD5, I will take the clomid next cycle if this cycle doesn't work in our favor. Can I just break the pills in half for 25mg? If I were to take a smaller dose, would I still have to stop after 5-6months theoretically?
    In terms of attempts, we were planning to do what we did the last two cycles: BD once at my first peak. Should I be trying earlier, like at a high instead of peak?
    Thank you!

  3. #13
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    Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.

  4. #14
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    Yes, do count the protein and fat in tofu. It's just that the protein and fat in fruit and veg is very minimal (the government basically rounds up these minimal amounts that the body really cannot use to 1 g, well if people are eating a lot of fruit and veg, this ends up eating into their ability to eat real foods) and as for the calories in low carb veg they're mostly fiber and not much else anyway, and you have to eat a literal mountain of them before they amount to anything. Just have the low carb veg freely, no need to count.

    Your LP and period are reflective hormonally of what happened in the cycle BEFORE. The period is the lining you built early in that cycle, the LP has to do with what your body is doing hormonally in that cycle, and they really tell you little about what is happening in FUTURE cycles. Once the period comes, a new cycle with a different hormonal profile begins, and even tho we do generally have patterns, they can and do change all the time and so what happened in the past does not mean that any such issue (which I do not think exists for you anyway!) would continue on forever more. It doesn't even mean anything for the very next cycle!

    I mention this because a lot of people worry that lighter periods and short LP in previous months may indicate something dire about their ability to conceive in future, but it really doesn't. I just wanted to set your mind at ease about that.

    yes, you can split the pills to get 25 mg. It may be less effective but many people do still see benefits from it at 25. Your call to make. Yes, you'd still have to stop after 5-6 months and we want you to be successfully pregnant by then, so if you have enough of the 50 for that long I'd just take the 50 anyway. I guess I was assuming you only had the one month of 50.

    It's your call to make re attempts. I do like to see you guys go to every 4 day method (in the 72 hour pattern) at some point but this is a different situation because you DID get pregnant. So if you wanted to try for at least one month with one attempt at first positive OPK (NOT HIGH, that will really cut odds of conception) I'm ok with that.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaLaetitia View Post
    Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.
    Clomid has been shown to raise progesterone in the luteal phase, extending the luteal phase for many people, and that's actually one of the most common reasons it is prescribed. It also encourages a big burst of estrogen suddenly that may help make a "better" ovulation by helping the egg mature and be ovulated more quickly, limiting its exposure to hormones that may mess it up (or that is the theory, the truth is doctors don't actually know, they just see better rates of pregnancy when they use it.)

    Clomid is used all the time in people who have had chemicals + short LP, and in fact short LP while ovulating is the second most common reason why it is used (the first of course being people who aren't ovulating).

    People get pregnant while breastfeeding all the time. The poster already did it twice. I did it twice. Generally speaking, anyone who is having fairly regular menstrual cycles while breastfeeding with LP of 9-10 days or more is able to successfully conceive while breastfeeding. When someone cannot sustain a pregnancy while nursing, we see them having somewhat long cycles with VERY short LP like 3-5 days (and they cannot get pregnant that way anyway - getting pregnant and having a chemical is NOT the type of pattern we see with nursing moms who aren't able to conceive while breastfeeding, it's not ovulating regularly and then having a super short LP)

    Doctors like to seize on breastfeeding because people have an "ick factor" about nursing while pregnant and because it's a way for a doctor to make people think fertility issues are their fault when the doctor has no way to help. But it's really something that is fine and possible for most people to do.

    We are fixing her calorie restriction and hopefully things in the diet department will be squared away shortly.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LindaLaetitia View Post
    Hey Angelmama, i read your thread , it is very interesting. But i wonder, why do you want to use clomid ? You get positive pregnancy tests - so there is no issue to get pregnant ? I personally think - its only my opinion - the problem is being pregnant while breastfeeding AND calorie restriction. Maybe it s too much for you body now.
    I was curious about clomid since I read that delayed ovulation may be correlated to lower egg quality since they may be exposed to different hormones. I read that clomid will help women ovulation closer to the 14 CD mark and helps with a longer LP, which mine tends to be shorter. I ovulated CD 19 last cycle, which was the earliest I ever have since my daughter. The cycle before was o at CD 29. My hope was that it would help me O closer to CD 14.

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  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    Yes, do count the protein and fat in tofu. It's just that the protein and fat in fruit and veg is very minimal (the government basically rounds up these minimal amounts that the body really cannot use to 1 g, well if people are eating a lot of fruit and veg, this ends up eating into their ability to eat real foods) and as for the calories in low carb veg they're mostly fiber and not much else anyway, and you have to eat a literal mountain of them before they amount to anything. Just have the low carb veg freely, no need to count.

    Your LP and period are reflective hormonally of what happened in the cycle BEFORE. The period is the lining you built early in that cycle, the LP has to do with what your body is doing hormonally in that cycle, and they really tell you little about what is happening in FUTURE cycles. Once the period comes, a new cycle with a different hormonal profile begins, and even tho we do generally have patterns, they can and do change all the time and so what happened in the past does not mean that any such issue (which I do not think exists for you anyway!) would continue on forever more. It doesn't even mean anything for the very next cycle!

    I mention this because a lot of people worry that lighter periods and short LP in previous months may indicate something dire about their ability to conceive in future, but it really doesn't. I just wanted to set your mind at ease about that.

    yes, you can split the pills to get 25 mg. It may be less effective but many people do still see benefits from it at 25. Your call to make. Yes, you'd still have to stop after 5-6 months and we want you to be successfully pregnant by then, so if you have enough of the 50 for that long I'd just take the 50 anyway. I guess I was assuming you only had the one month of 50.

    It's your call to make re attempts. I do like to see you guys go to every 4 day method (in the 72 hour pattern) at some point but this is a different situation because you DID get pregnant. So if you wanted to try for at least one month with one attempt at first positive OPK (NOT HIGH, that will really cut odds of conception) I'm ok with that.
    Thanks for your response! I have been counting everything, including the tofu. I will stop counting the bok choy, peppers and onions.
    I have 10 pills of clomisign, 50mg. Is that the right brand? I'm holding onto them for possibly next cycle if we're unsuccessful this time around.
    As for re attempts, I kept reading on your articles that 1 attempt is best, but that was a few years ago. Is the one attempt less recommended now?
    Also, usually I get two days of "high" fertility, then two days of "peak". Sometimes my husband won't get home til midnight, so would it be better odds wise to BD at the second high, or at Peak (but about 8-12 hours later). My worry is that we will miss the egg. Husband thinks we should attempt at the second high and then again when he gets home at night after "Peak". Would that change our sway to blue?

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  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelmamma View Post
    I was curious about clomid since I read that delayed ovulation may be correlated to lower egg quality since they may be exposed to different hormones. I read that clomid will help women ovulation closer to the 14 CD mark and helps with a longer LP, which mine tends to be shorter. I ovulated CD 19 last cycle, which was the earliest I ever have since my daughter. The cycle before was o at CD 29. My hope was that it would help me O closer to CD 14.
    Though the "delayed ovulation = poor egg quality" is VASTLY overblown (and is really more of a result of the reasons WHY people have delayed ovulation - people with severe PCOS have poor egg quality AND delayed ovulation, and for a long time this tricked doctors into thinking it was the delayed O that caused poor egg quality when really they're just coincidental) I do want to put your mind at ease that your ovulation is really not delayed in the way that was once believed to indicate poor egg quality. Ovulation any time within 21 days is considered normal, and up to 35 days is considered late but still in average range. While I do think the Clomid may be helpful to you I don't want you stressing over a problem that doesn't exist.
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  11. #19
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    Any brand, as long as it's clomiphene citrate (which it is)

    One attempt is still recommended to start with but many people cannot seem to get pregnant with one attempt. We started using the e4d method a few years ago now and have had good results with it - and it IS basically one attempt, just an easier way to do that which helps boost chances of conception...many times, people were failing to get pregnant with one attempt because they were missing ovulation totally, having attempts too soon or too late, and the e4d means they're having attempts all month and can catch the eggs they otherwise would have missed. PLUS, and this is most important, we want to maximize your chances of conceiving while on the Clomid due to its pink sway effects.

    Two attempts is somewhat more blue friendly than one, but we still get more girls than boys with two. It was THREE attempts in that fertile window that really cut the odds. The thing is you've been at this a while now and that, coupled with the Clomid, means you need to be in with a decent chance of conceiving. Rather than do what your husband suggests, I would have you do the e4d pattern plus one more attempt at first peak OPK. That way, if you're really mistiming the one attempt (which happens quite a lot) you will still be in with a chance. Both false negative OPK and false positive OPK are possible, and even a couple days error in either direction means you will miss the egg totally. So I would, starting after your last dose of Clomid if you use it OR your period ends if you don't, have sex every 72 hours and then IF YOU WANT add in one more attempt at first peak OPK while continuing with the every 72 hour pattern before and after (don't reset the pattern). You can if you prefer give it a month or two of just e4d before adding that second attempt BUT if you take Clomid I'd try at least one month with the e4d plus one.

    And just to set your mind at ease, this CANNOT be three attempts, even though it sounds like it's three attempts. We have found that the fertile window is much narrower than some sites/researchers have claimed and this is especially true with Clomid as it makes EWCM less. So even in the "worst case" scenario which is sex O-3, peak OPK, and O Day, this can't be more than two attempts, because if there was anything left from the O-3 attempt, that or the peak OPK attempt would already have fertilized the egg before the O Day shot could have been deposited and capacitated, and if there isn't, only then will the O Day shot have a chance. No matter what, 2 attempts at most.

    Having sex at the "high" reading is significantly lower chances of conception. Please have attempt at first peak. You aren't missing the egg, this comes 24-36 hours before ovulation, and sex before ovulation has better chances of fertilizing the egg than sex at or after ovulation does. But since there can be false positive and false negative OPK, you should try the e4d pattern to cover yourself in case the peak is not reliable, if htat makes sense.

    All that having been said if you guys do prefer to do it your husband's way that's not the end of the world at all, just be sure you're not having that first attempt too soon - one of the problems with having sex on the "high" reading is that you can get many days of high, or go straight to peak with no highs, so then that adds a bunch of stress and confusion to the mix. Just go in having a mental plan in place what you will do if you end up getting 3+ high readings and have already had sex on the second high, and also what you'll do if you go to peak!
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  12. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    Though the "delayed ovulation = poor egg quality" is VASTLY overblown (and is really more of a result of the reasons WHY people have delayed ovulation - people with severe PCOS have poor egg quality AND delayed ovulation, and for a long time this tricked doctors into thinking it was the delayed O that caused poor egg quality when really they're just coincidental) I do want to put your mind at ease that your ovulation is really not delayed in the way that was once believed to indicate poor egg quality. Ovulation any time within 21 days is considered normal, and up to 35 days is considered late but still in average range. While I do think the Clomid may be helpful to you I don't want you stressing over a problem that doesn't exist.
    Thanks so much for your response. So update: CD 12 and I received a "High" fertility reading on my Clear Blue Fertility Monitor. Which is so odd since this is so early for me, no fertile CM, and I took a non digital OPK (easy@home) since I was confused and the second line is very faint, so not even close to positive. Usually for me the test sticks slowly get darker over time.
    My pattern usually is two high, two peak. Do you recommend lube since my CM is non-existent? I know you've said that pre - seed sways blue, what other brands do you recommend?
    My husband is working a lot this week, so looks like it'll be one attempt at peak whether we like it or not

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