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  1. #1
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    LE Standard or PCOS?

    Hello!

    Newbie here...been reading alot over the past months and hesitant to post because I was worried that I'll become super obsessed but I guess I need some reassurance here to know if I am on the right track...any advice is highly appreciated

    I started easing into the diet early June by counting the calories and reducing meat (6 weeks, lost 1kg) and went full LE standard diet on July 11th (skipping breakfast, no meat, mainly empty carbs and 1500cal with the protain/fat limit). I lost 1kg over the 4 weeks on the standard diet but i often feel light headed esp after a huge meal. Then i came across the PCOS diet and I find the diet much easier to follow. Keeps me fuller, abit hungry when it is close to meal time but never starving. I am really happy on the diet and I could stay on it forever I feel. I am quite small (bmi 19.5 at the start of the diet) so I was worried that my weight would fly off with PCOS diet but it held steady. So I am second guessing myself if I am doing the diet "correctly" and is there anyone who SHOULD be on the standard diet and does not get better result with PCOS diet? My bmi now is 18.7 after loosing some weight on the standard diet.

    At the moment my diet looks like this (i tweaked along the way to find the combo that i love the most and i eat the same things everyday so i dont need to worry about the limit)

    Total calories 1500 with about 55-60g of protein and fat, carb at around 170 per myfitnesspal. I only calculate the calories for corn and not other veg, and i cut out meat completely.

    Skipping breakfast with black coffee + 1T heavy cream

    Lunch @11 :
    - Main dish: 1c brown rice stir fried with 2 eggwhites & slice of cheese + stir fry bellpepper, tofu, mushroom & 1/2 corn on the cob + some leafy greens
    - 1 apple
    - 1 full fat greek yoghurt with some dragon fruit and frozen cranberries
    - coffee + 1 cup of sweetened almond milk

    afternoon i have another cup of coffee with 1T cream to get me through dinner

    Dinner @ 5:30 with kids and i'll finish eating by 8pm :
    - same main dish
    - 1 apple
    - graham crackers with 1T peanut butter
    - a shot of whisky

    The only supplement i have is folic acid + fiber
    I do 1hr cardio 6x a week

    I plan to start ttc end of Sept after i am on the diet for 12 weeks (4w standard + 8w PCOS) starting with 1 attempt (i conceived both of my boys with 2 consecutive attempts around O)

    I have 2 boys and this is definitely our last...I hope I am doing everything I can to get our little girl and knowing that I cannot control over it, I have no whatever the outcome is!

  2. #2
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    Anyone who CAN do the alternate diet, SHOULD do the alternate diet. It's healthier, better for egg quality, and it gets better results. The only people who need to do the other diet are those who just can't stick with the alternate one for whatever reason, or lose massive amounts of weight on the alt. diet.

    Question - are you counting the protein and fat in fruit and veg?
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  3. #3
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    Hi atomic, thank you sooo much for your reply...and so promptly!

    Is the alternative diet same as PCOS one? I find the PCOS easier to understand and follow.

    The only veg/fruit that I included are 1 corn and 2 apples (approx 1.5 of fat and 5g of protein), so my fat and protein will be about 50-55g, lower side of the limit. Should I up it? I am also cutting out added sugar because i was a sugar addict. I don't love empty carbs like candies but i love high fat sugary food like cake and chocolate. So I guess i'd do something different and it will benefit my health over all. The only worried I had was my weight but it didn't fly off as expected and I couldn't figure out why. I started with 1500cal because I am exercising as well and I didnt want to mess up my cycles. Do I need to lower my cal intake further because i have a small frame to start with? Also would 4 weeks LE traditional + 8 weeks PCOS diet be enough to get good result or should I be on PCOS diet for longer? I know it will probably take longer to conceive on a sway but I also ready many successes on the first cycle...just want to be ready!

    DH is also going on a weight loss journey because his blood pressure is abit high. We plan to cut down his meat and portion size and he will start exercising again (low intense cardio). Would this have positive or negative impact on the sway? He gained alot of weight after COVID since gyms are closed and I read somewhere that gaining weight for DH is better to sway pink?

    I am planning to use CLOMID for swaying purpose only, 50mg day 3-7 but i am kind of nervous, reading people getting ovarian cysts after the meds (not sure if its related but so many people reporting that!). Is there anyone who should not be on clomid? I am 33 and had no issue ovulating on my own.

    Sorry for bombing with so many questions! I thought I have a big picture and plan already but there are so many questions popping up every now and then.

  4. #4
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    Yes, it's the PCOS one. We have so many people on it now who do not have PCOS I've started calling it the alternate LE Diet so people are open to being on it for other reasons.

    Yes, you should up protein and fat a bit, it will really help. Anywhere from 50-60 g is good, and for the sake of feeling satiated that extra 5 g protein and fat really make a difference. Plus because you're eating the corn and apple, which we would not count, you need to compensate for those.

    You do not need to lose weight because you're already below our BMI cutoff for holding steady. Just continue on at what you're eating. cutting out sugar is a part of the alternate diet but since you're on it more preemptively and not because you have PCOS/IR, you can probably get away with some sugar now and then.

    We do have a lot of "chubby hubbies" making girls, but as long as he drops a good amount of weight (more than 10 lbs) we also see good results with that because it can lower testosterone. Ideally I'd probably have him stay overweight for now, but if he's willing, for the sake of his health especially with COVID going around encourage him to adopt that healthy lifestyle if he's willing.

    Some people who are on Clomid are prone to ovarian cysts, that's why it's prescribed for them. And/or they're on higher doses. We have had very very few ovarian cysts on the Clomid over 10 years' time this site has been here. I don't allow people to use Clomid if they have history of recurrent ovarian cysts without a doctor's involvement but otherwise it really hasn't been a "thing" for us.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomic sagebrush View Post
    Yes, it's the PCOS one. We have so many people on it now who do not have PCOS I've started calling it the alternate LE Diet so people are open to being on it for other reasons.

    Yes, you should up protein and fat a bit, it will really help. Anywhere from 50-60 g is good, and for the sake of feeling satiated that extra 5 g protein and fat really make a difference. Plus because you're eating the corn and apple, which we would not count, you need to compensate for those.

    You do not need to lose weight because you're already below our BMI cutoff for holding steady. Just continue on at what you're eating. cutting out sugar is a part of the alternate diet but since you're on it more preemptively and not because you have PCOS/IR, you can probably get away with some sugar now and then.

    We do have a lot of "chubby hubbies" making girls, but as long as he drops a good amount of weight (more than 10 lbs) we also see good results with that because it can lower testosterone. Ideally I'd probably have him stay overweight for now, but if he's willing, for the sake of his health especially with COVID going around encourage him to adopt that healthy lifestyle if he's willing.

    Some people who are on Clomid are prone to ovarian cysts, that's why it's prescribed for them. And/or they're on higher doses. We have had very very few ovarian cysts on the Clomid over 10 years' time this site has been here. I don't allow people to use Clomid if they have history of recurrent ovarian cysts without a doctor's involvement but otherwise it really hasn't been a "thing" for us.
    Thank you Atomic, your words really eased up my mind. I have added another portion of greek yoghurt and another T of whipping cream so my protein and fat now sits at 60&60. If you have time, can you help me to under stand why the alternative diet gets better result then the sugar crash one? I thought the theory is based on low fat & low protein and the protein & fat in the alternative diet has almost doubled from the traditional one. Or is it that it is still considered "low" as compared to our normal diet when not swaying?

    I just cut off sugary things because I can be very addicted to them. I thought I could not live without sweet things but to my surprise when I stayed away from them completely I do not crave sweet things at all. The only sugary thing I have is a cup of sweetened almond milk at the end of the day. Speaking of which, can you help me to take a look if it is fortified? There is no Vit D but there is Calcium carbonate and Vit E added. I have attached the nutrition facts, thank you so much!1_300x300.jpg

    I gave DH fiber supplements but on top of that he is also taking Vit C and Vit D as preventive measures against COVID. I hope that won't throw off the work I am doing here.

    I never had any cyst in my life but I have an appointment with my OB to check on my fertility. If nothing is wrong I will give Clomid a try on the first attempt. When you say start with one attempt, do you mean regular release with 1 attempt at pos OPK? or abstain until pos OPK? Is there a difference in results?
    2018 2019 Swaying for a in 2021 to complete our family!

  6. #6
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    We don't KNOW why the alt. diet seems to be working better. It may be that the nutrients are reduced enough to sway pink - it's really not much more protein and fat than the standard diet...it is NOT doubled as you claim because you can go up to 60 g fat even on the standard diet!...and the same amount of calories - and then it's better for blood sugar and testosterone levels. Or it may be that people can eat a lot more nutrients easily on the standard diet (something about that sugar/white flour, people can suck down a lot more food quick as opposed to whole grains and veg) After all, even junk food has nutrients in it. Or maybe it's some other thing entirely, or a combination of several things. We just don't know.

    I would not mention that you want to take Clomid on your own to the doctor, they frown on stuff like that. But it's great to go get checked out before any pregnancy anyway!

    How old are you and your husband? That will change the advice I give.



    A cup of that is fine every day for you. That's not the sort of fortification that troubles me. Compare that to a meal replacer shake or a Power Bar or multivitamin and you'll see the difference.

    What husbands take doesn't seem to matter much if at all.
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  7. #7
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    I guess I'll have to trust the stats! I don't think my maternal condition is declining in the slightest bit. In fact I feel like i'm in the heathiest pre-conception condition ever (no complain here!) - regular exercise, loads of veg and fruits, no processed food and no sugar. It is still very different from my diet when I conceived my boys (never skip breakfast, always snacking and very high protein&fat and low carb diet). I am very excited to see how it works on me!

    Oh I will never give a hint to my Dr about taking this. She will lecture me for sure. It's gonna be my dark little secret here

    DH is 36 and I am 33, we conceived both our sons with 2 attempts back to back around O day (either O-2, O-1 or O-1, O). I used OPK and I chart my temp so won't be too far off. I will continue to use OPK and temp as I have been doing those for years it's just something natural to do without adding stress. I usually O between CD14-CD16. I want to get pregnant on Clomid asap so I am not doing any cut offs, shallow release or J&D. The plan is 1 attempt on positive OPK because I usually O the day after the 1st pos (max 2 days because my temp takes around a day or 2 to climb) but I am not sure what to do before hand and since Clomid will probably mess up my cycle abit? I conceived both boys rather quickly, 1st one on the 1st attempt using OPK and 2nd one the month after I weaned him from breast feeding. I came here from the babydust and when I first came across their method I was like "no wonder I have two boys!". But after seeing alot of opposites with perfect sway or successes with imperfect sway I think its just not that simple. It's hard to ditch the idea cutoff completely but using Clomid I know my time is limited. So please advise me what to do to increase the chance of conception while sway in pinker direction! How many cycles can I be on Clomid, 3 or 6? Thank you atomic for your precious time, cannot say this enough
    2018 2019 Swaying for a in 2021 to complete our family!

  8. #8
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    Beyond the stats (which are not scientifically compiled and thus can be misleading) it's my own observation based on 10+ years now. We've had several people at this point even have successful sways on the alternate diet after having opposites with the standard, and some of our most frustrating alternate diet opposites were in people who just kept on eating sugar sugar sugar thinking it didn't matter. I really have a very high level of faith in it at this point. If only everyone could stick with it without wasting away to nothing I would use it exclusively, but there are still quite a few people who just can't do it either from being very picky eaters, or else losing gobs of weight on it.

    The vast majority of babies of either gender - between 2/3 to 3/4 depending on the stats you use - were conceived O-2, O-1, and O Day. The odds of conception from O-3 are not great (this is why so many people give up on Shettles timing - or Babydust, whatever they want to call it nowadays) and why we see people, regularly, going YEARS not conceiving with three day cutoffs. The odds of conception O-4, O-5 are vanishingly small, like 1 in 1000 and 1 in 10,000, respectively, and some data indicates more of those pregnancies are lost. The odds of conception O-6 is ZERO. Long story short, the reason you conceived boys that day, is because that's when human beings conceive BABIES. The timing of your intercourse had absolutely nothing to do with the gender of your baby.

    Anyone who says they conceived with these long cutoffs was very likely wrong about the day they ovulated. In fact, when scientists using modern technology went back and looked at all the old Shettles studies, they found the same held true - very very few babies, and certainly not the 50% of babies that are girls, are conceived those days. The vast majority of all babies, boys and girls, are conceived O-2, O-1, and O Day. So while I know that it's hard to give up timing because you've heard so much about it, it's really been as completely debunked scientifically as it is possible for something to BE debunked (you can read all about it here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum...trouble+timing) and you should not feel at all reluctant to give it up. It does nothing for you!

    Do be aware that on Clomid your O day can and indeed, often DOES change, coming either sooner or later. Your OPK patterns can also change. I'm fine with you starting with one attempt at first positive OPK but we will need to add attempts probably as soon as next month if you're willing.

    Clomid can be used up to six months but in many cases we'd do three, have a month off (and you can still try that month because we still see lots of girls conceived that month off the Clomid, and you can even do a stricter sway that month if you're worried about it) and then another three months. Going 5-6 months on Clomid can sometimes cut odds of conception. Another thing we do sometimes is do six consecutive months but in the 4th and 5th and 6th month, loosen up and add attempts. It's your choice whichever approach you prefer.
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  9. #9
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    Oh and re "maternal condition" that is not something you should be able to tell is happening. People conceive girls every day feeling totally normal and healthy and ovulating every month - indeed, this is what we WANT to happen. People who go on LE Diet too strictly and end up feeling terrible are not doing the diet right. The LE Diet is simply the lower end of normal. It isn't starvation, you're not meant to feel lousy or unhealthy while doing it.

    There are many ways to think about a "healthy" diet. There is healthy in terms of heart health and cancer prevention, and the LE Diet is actually very good for that because it's lower fat and fewer calories. But when scientists put mice on a very low cal, low fat diet, they were "healthier" but then they stopped having babies. We also see a pretty clear demarcation when people have lost too much weight - and it really isn't super thin, either - where they stop ovulating or get a short LP or start having super long cycles. "Healthy" in terms of fertility requires higher calories, higher fat, overall more nutrients than just basic human health does.
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  10. #10
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    Right that makes a lot of sense, declining health in terms of fertility and not necessarily the overall condition. I thought i'd enjoy the standard diet because I could indulge in lots of sweets and white bread but I was miserable. I wasn't feeling hungry or starving at all but I was shaky, lightheaded and got chills from time to time usually an hour or two after the meal. I was on treadmill one night and felt like I was gonna pass out. My guess was that my body was not used to so much carbs & sugar in 1 huge meal so it cannot process them properly? Then I thought maybe that's how "declining maternal condition" should be. HA. Just really glad that I found the alternative diet and talked to you about it because I definitely can not stay on the standard one for long.

    I've been on the traditional diet for 4 weeks and alt diet for 2.5 weeks now. My LP for last cycle was shortened by a day from 14 to 13 days according to FF but it might be I Oed on the same day of OPK instead of the next day, I am not sure. But as long as it doesn't keep on getting shorter and shorter I am fine right? Then my bbt of this new cycle is slightly higher. My temp has always been on the lower side, before O always below 36c (96.8F) and after O 36.2-36.5c (97.1-97.7F). This cycle I'm only at CD8 now so I don't have enough data but at the moment most days are above my previous cover line 36c. I'm not sure if that means anything but I hope the diet is doing something to my body!

    Yes I will definitely throw the timing behind me! I wouldn't know how even if I wanted to because I have irregular cycles from 27-32days. It is just not feasible to keep 1 attempt + cut off + close enough to O to conceive without knowing when the O will show up.

    If my cycle will change on Clomid and the plan is to have 1 attempt at pos OPK, what should DH do before that? Do we do abstain from CD1 till the pos OPK?
    2018 2019 Swaying for a in 2021 to complete our family!

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