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  1. #21
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    Yes, none of those things are swaying in our results. We get the same results with and without them. You can drop them all, or one or two every month, just whatever you prefer. If I were swaying I would skip every one of them.

    I am always in support of Clomid or Femara if you can get them. As for worrying about whether you got it from a doctor or not, after having seen hundreds of doctors on six different continents prescribing Clomid/Femara in very irresponsible ways (at much too high a dose, for too many months in a row, telling people terrible misinformation about when they will ovulate and their chances of twinning, without having them take pregnancy tests and starting it just "whenever" in the cycle, even if they may be pregnant) I honestly think the way most people use it on their own is probably just as safe as the doctors.

    CD 3-7, 2.5 mg. It will likely change your ovulation day so be prepared for that.
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  3. #22
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    Thank you for your answer .

    I will probably leave all of these things out in the next cycle. It's difficult for me to do the high level of exercise, so I definitely want to increase my chances of getting pregnant in the next cycle.

    I know there is no guarantee that I will get my girl. But I should have a good chance with diet + exercises (every day) for 9 weeks, fiber before meals, skip breakfast, Femara, one attempt at positive OPK, alcohol every day from AF-O and a husband who rides a lot of bicycles, correct? Is there anything else I could do to increase the odds? Have I forgotten anything that sways pink?

    I am not worried about taking Femara. Unfortunately, I know from my own experience that many doctors do not prescribe medication carefully. I have read a little myself and have no concerns about using this drug without medical advice and I trust your experience. How can Femara change ovulation? Does it come sooner or later?

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  5. #23
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    Yes - diet, exercise, number of attempts, hubby biking - all that stuff is great! The only thing I'm not seeing is coffee but you may be including that (and even if not it's just one little thing).

    Femara can change your ovulation to come sooner OR later. It all depends on a) when your cycle was coming anyway and b) the medication's effect on you. Like, a person who always ovulates on CD 18 or so, might see their O day come earlier. A person who always ovulated CD 12 would likely see it come later. And if you O on CD 14, it can go either way.

    The thing to be aware of is that you will not ovulate till 5 days after the last dose, at the earliest. AND also that Clomid will cause false positive OPK for 3 days after the last dose.
    So if you take an OPK strip 4 days after your last dose, you will get an accurate reading in case of ovulation that happens 5 days after your last dose (the earliest you can ovulate on Clomid).
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  7. #24
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    Thanks again .

    I don't like coffee at all, so I won't integrate that into my Sway . I hope this doesn't drastically reduce my chances.

    Thanks for the information about changing ovulation with Femara. My ovulation is mostly between CD 15 and 19, in rare cases earlier. I am excited to see what will happen.

    If I take Femara from CD 3 to 7, does that mean that my OPK from CD 8 to 10 can be positive without ovulation coming soon? Does that mean that if the OPK is positive at this time, we shouldn't DTD? If the OPK should be positive from CD 11, does that mean ovulation is coming soon and it would be time for BD?

    I also have a question about when exactly should we DTD on my cycle pattern? I use the Premom app to track my OPK and the following values ​​refer to the T/C ratio there. The following case in the current cycle:

    Up to CD 14: Tests are weak, ratio below 0.2
    CD 15 at noon: Tests are slowly getting stronger, ratio 0.5
    CD 15 in the evening: ratio 0.7
    CD 16 at noon: First positive OPK, ratio 1.25
    CD 16 in the evening: peak, ratio 1.35
    CD 17 in the morning: value begins to decrease, ratio 0.9
    CD 17 in the evening: ratio 0.5

    When do you think we should DTD with this cycle pattern? On CD 16 in the evening? We can only DTD in the evening because we already have a child . I am afraid that a BD on CD 16 late in the evening might be too late, because the OPK was already positive on CD 16 at noon? There could then be less than 24 hours between BD and ovulation. But if we DTD on CD 15 in the evening (on the day when the tests get stronger but are not yet positive), the time to ovulation could be too long, right? I want to have the greatest possible chance of conception. My OPK get stronger every cycle in the same way, only the CD are different.

  8. #25
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    Hey, what you include in your sway is always your choice. NO one little thing (unless it's a BIG thing, like diet) can completely undermine a sway.

    Yes, that's right. You can get a false positive on OPK for 3 days after having taken Clomid. And you won't ovulate till the 5th day after. So if you get a positive OPK on CD 11, this means that ovulation will likely be coming on CD 12/13 and you should have an attempt. I would not advise having unprotected sex CD 8-10 (unless you're doing e4d method, that is). If you're trying

    The Premom app and all the "ratios" and stuff is garbage. I hate those types of apps, I loathe them, they should be taken off the market because they are peddling pseudoscience. Those numbers do NOT mean anything at all. While your hormone levels are rising, the individual darkness is determined by the concentration of hormone in your urine and is not a scientific measure the way they make them sound. They have assigned numbers to something that is wildly variable and they are not indicative of anything real.

    You should use the first positive OPK and not the "peak" which does not tell you anything other than that your body is putting out a lot of hormone. Your body will ovulate based on when the hormone levels in your blood reach a certain amount, even if the hormones get stronger later on. So based on that, I would have you have sex the night of CD 16. That should not be too late because you have an average 24-36 hours, and in many cases as long as 48 hours, from first peak to O. I know that in the OPK directions they say that you can ovulate as soon as 8 hours after the first peak, but that mainly happens in people who are not testing regularly. (since they don't test early, they may miss an earlier peak the day before or whatever, and then they test when they expect to ovulate and have a positive then). We have far more people (I mean like 99%) ovulate later after the positive, it's very rare for us to have people ovulating quickly after the positive if they're testing often enough.

    CD 15 I think would be too early, because not only could you be 3 days out from ovulation still at that point, it is possible for you to have those dark, but not yet positive OPK for days. Even though you haven't had this in the past, swaying can change the way your surge appears on OPK strips and so I would not want you to have an attempt only to find that you don't get a positive for days after that.
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  10. #26
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    Hello, thank you very much for your information . Then I know what to do.

    Unfortunately, I am now facing the next problem. Why can't everything just run smoothly!? I've been measuring my BBT every cycle for almost a year. My luteal phase has always been 14 or 15 days without exception. I've had slight abdominal pain since 6DPO, which I've never had before. A light spotting started on 10DPO at 10 p.m. At first I thought it might be an implantation bleeding and was full of hope. Then on 11DPO (yesterday) I got my menstruation. My BBT went down today. I have severe abdominal pain (PMS). I never have PMS otherwise, my menstruation is always painless. It's all different this cycle. BFN all the past few days, I am definitely not pregnant.

    I worry now because my luteal phase was so short. It's the first time since I've been measuring my BBT. I think the luteal phase was too short to get pregnant. Can the cause be too much exercise / diet? Am I overdoing it? I've lost some weight in the past few weeks, my BMI is now 20.2 (50.3 kg). I know I shouldn't be losing any more weight. But somehow there's a fear in my head that the girl sway won't work if I don't lose weight. I'm going to increase the calories a bit now so that I don't lose weight so quickly. I want a girl so much, but if my luteal phase is too short, I won't get pregnant at all. Can too much exercise / too hard diet be the cause of a short luteal phase or do I have to look elsewhere for the cause? What should i do, Atomic? Could I just drink more alcohol to increase the calories and not increase the calories from the diet? I think this makes me feel better than eating more.

    I think I'll ask my gynecologist if she'll give me progesterone for post ovulation. Is this a good idea?

    So, I think I'm now on CD2 in the next cycle. I'll start taking Femara tomorrow, right?

  11. #27
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    I thought again about the shortened luteal phase and somehow I can't imagine that it was due to the exercises or the diet. As mentioned before, for a few months this year I went on a diet similar to the LE diet to lose weight. During this time I also did a lot of exercise (one hour 4-5 days a week), but not only cardio, also strength training. I never had problems with a short LP. I haven't done much differently now so I don't think exercise / diet was the cause. I do the LE diet, lose some weight, and do exercises (cardio only). The exercises are a little more than they were then, but that's actually the only difference.

    Could it be supplements that shortened the LP? Saw palmetto maybe? I took this for the first time this cycle. Anyway, I'll skip many supplements on this cycle. I have a feeling that this could be the cause.

  12. #28
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    Well, you absolutely need to stop losing weight now. But you're wrong about the LP, 10-11 days is absolutely long enough to get pregnant with. That's barely shorter than normal (12 days). Please do not panic about this.

    Many, many people will tell me "but it can't be diet/exercise because I've dieted in the past and this didn't happen" but a) many times they're being more restrictive than they remember from the past b) you may have had more reserves built up that time than you do this time, and c) your body does change over time and things you could tolerate when you were younger you may not be able to tolerate now. You can't use what you did in the past to tell you what to do now. The reason I have the BMI limits set where they are is because I saw SO MANY people see disrupted cycles once they dropped under certain BMI.

    That having been said, you should not be taking saw palmetto. I do think that may be at the heart of this issue, and is certainly contributing to the problem, and I want you to drop it (I have not recommended that for many years because it was massively disrupting to the menstrual cycle and did not work anyway). I would like you to tell me everything you're taking because MANY of the supplements can alter the cycle, most of them don't even work anyway, and of the few that work, many of them are not suitable for a person who doesn't have weight to lose.

    Yes, absolutely not enough food coupled with the exercise can cause a short LP. That's why we have the BMI limits set where they are, and the calorie/protein/fat limits set where they are. People delay or stop ovulation, and/or get a short LP if you don't eat enough and exercise a lot. So please listen to what I'm telling you now, that you should not have dropped below BMI 21 - this is exactly why I tell you that, and the diet DOES work without losing weight thanks to the limits and other changes in diet.

    Do not just drink more alcohol. That isn't real food and likely won't help. You need to boost calories, particularly calories of fat. You haven't mentioned how many cals you're eating, but you should be at least at 1500-1800 cals, and if you're losing this weight at that cal intake, bump up to 1800-2000. I would like you eating at least 50 g of fat daily, NOT COUNTING the fat in fruits and vegetables. You may want to add in a serving of full fat dairy daily and 4-6 eggs a week (or use these things to meet your fat goals) but if that feels too scary to you I'm ok with you just dropping saw palmetto and possibly many other things you're taking (again, please tell me what you are taking and I can help you weed out the bad stuff) and waiting a month or two to see if things correct themselves. This is ONLY provided you are eating enough, though. I really think you're going to be disappointed if you just drop supplements and keep not eating enough and losing weight.

    Do be aware that changes happen over time, and so it takes time to fix them. You can't just drop the supplements and eat more and everything will go back to normal again. It may take a few months, so don't be too surprised if this continues next month. I promise you can absolutely conceive with 10-11 day lp. What we do NOT want to do is have you keep eating low calories, not enough fat, and just dropping supplements. You're going to end up even worse off than you are now, and we'll really have to reverse course on diet to keep your cycle going if you do that.

    I do not think you should keep doing what you're doing and just ask for progesterone supplements. Firstly, that is just masking a problem (inadequate hormone levels) and that problem may be causing other effects that may prevent you from conceiving. And secondly, this is likely not a progesterone issue, but an estrogen issue. Your body is meant to release a burst of estrogen at 7 DPO or so, that helps maintain the uterine lining long enough for your body to detect a new pregnancy, and signal the corpus luteum to make more progesterone. Estrogen also governs things like when/if you ovulate, your lining, the quality of your cervical mucus, so if you're not making enough estrogen, this has very real ramifications that can affect your ability to conceive. We want you guys with lower estrogen, but not so low that you can't get pregnant.

    Yes, you'd start Femara today, CD 3.
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  14. #29
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    Thank you very much for your very detailed answer. You are really of great help!

    First question: Should I start the Femara today (Sunday evening)? Or not until tomorrow? The question is whether the spotting on Friday evening (start at 10 p.m.) already counts as CD1? Or the beginning of the heavier bleeding on Saturday morning? I assumed that Saturday counts as CD1 and should therefore start with the Femara on Monday?

    Okay, I'm going to increase the amount of calories. I have eaten different amounts in the last few weeks, on average 1400 kcal per day (I know that will have been too little) and sometimes 1600 kcal. I will now try to stick to the 1600 kcal. If I keep the weight and eat little nutrients at the same time, will it still sway pink? When I was in the weight loss phase a few months ago, I never ate more than 1300 kcal on average. As a result, my cycles became longer and my ovulation came later and later. However, the luteal phase never shortened at that time. Back then I didn't lose weight as quickly with 1300 kcal as I do now with a little more calories. I think all the exercise is one of the reasons I'm losing weight so quickly.

    I am now at BMI 20.2. I will not lose any more weight. But I shouldn't gain weight either, right? So I should stick with my BMI 20, right? I eat several eggs a week. I've been a vegetarian since I was a child, but I eat eggs several times a week. Nuts are also high in fat, but also have a lot of nutrients. Can I still eat a few nuts?

    I took several supplements last cycle. I canceled a lot of it for this cycle. I now take: Folic acid 800 mcg (combined with vitamin B12, 10 mcg), Myo Inositol 1000 mg from AF-O (500 mg after ovulation), Antihistamines from AF-O, Vitex 10 mg. I have been taking Vitex for a few months, I started taking it because of my PCO tendencies and have not had any problems with Vitex so far, but I don't know whether it had a positive effect either. Should i stop taking it? I also take fiber (chitosan) before high-fat meals.

    It's nice to hear that my shortened LP is still long enough to get pregnant. Even if my LP was shortened by a few days, I'm glad it was still long enough for a pregnancy to occur. I am very excited to see what my new cycle will be like.

    Thanks again!

  15. #30
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    1) The spotting at 10 pm is NOT CD 1, count the first day of red flow (Saturday) as CD 1

    2)Yes, if you follow the diet and hold steady on weight it still sways pink. Weight loss/gain is not very predictive of whose sways work and whose don't. Doing the LE Diet even without weight loss gets good results. Don't get too focused on "little nutrients" though, just do the diet as it is written and do not cut back below the amount of protein, fat, and calories in the diet.

    Yes, exercise will make weight come off even at higher cal intake. You do need to eat more to compensate, and our good results are in people who are exercising and eating more calories to make up for it.

    3)In most cases you can just hold steady where you're at and shouldn't need to gain weight back at that BMI.

    Yes, you can absolutely eat some nuts within the limits. Do not worry about the nutrients in food aside from calories, protein, and fat, and then avoiding vitamins and fortified foods. That is all you need to do. You do not, and should not, cut out other foods on the basis of the nutrients in them, just stay in the limits for cals, pro, fat.

    4)Please tell me the supplements you WERE taking. Like I said, these supplements have cumulative effects that take time to go away again, so things you were taking last month may have effects this month. Also, if you were taking many supplements and just dropped them cold turkey without weaning off, this can make your body get "nervous" (if they were nutrient based) or mess up your hormones, and that may have contributed to the disruption in your cycle.

    As for the supplements you are taking, I do not recommend B12 for your sway, unless you have deficiencies in that I'd wean off that to a folic acid without B 12.

    At your low BMI and with weight flying off, you probably should not be on myoinositol any more. If you MUST take it, I'd cut back to half dose - 500 during the FP and 500 every other day during the LP. Myoinositol can lower hormone levels which for some people is good, but your LP getting shorter means you may be making things worse with the myo. I also would like you to drop the fiber. You are blocking the raw hormones you are in need of to continue ovulation and have an adequate LP. This is, of course, good in some ways for swaying, but we need to not continue doing this any more if your cycle becomes disrupted. That is a sign we've gone too far.

    You should not ever have been taking antihistamines from AF-O. I only ever recommend them for a few days around ovulation. And they did not work anyway, with lower chances of conception, and the same number of boys and girls conceived with and without them. Since you're on Femara antihistamines need to go now.

    Vitex is 1000% absolutely causing or contributing to your short LP. These things have cumulative effects - meaning diet, exercise, and herbs, Vitex and SP in particular, work TOGETHER. So if you were only doing one or two of them, you may not have issues, but all three together can cause issues. Plus, some issues take months to develop meaning you can take herbs for a couple months and it's only after a while your hormones get too low. Neither Vitex nor SP worked at all in our results (indeed, they had significantly WORSE results than the overall success rate of the site - meaning more people get girls without them!) and really cut odds of conception by a lot.

    And if all that wasn't enough, you should NEVER EVER have been taking vitex and SP with Femara anyway, that is a huge no-no. They can make the Femara not work as well, and also really cut the odds of you conceiving on Femara to practically nothing.

    Keep me posted about your upcoming month!
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