LE Diet For PCOS

[atomic sagebrush]

It's fine because it is working for you and helping you stick to the diet on the whole. I am ok with that but I'd have it just once a fday.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Thank you atomic!

I decided to post what I have been eating for the past 2 weeks and maybe someone can tell me how to improve:
(I just counted all totals today and realized that I probably should eat a little more calories but not more fat)


Late breakfast (9.30 am or 10am)
1 banana (100cal, 0,5g fat, 1g protein)
1,5 whole grain bread (rye) (120cal, 7g fat, 7g protein)
coffee and 100ml full fat milk (60cal, 3,5g fat, 3,5g protein)

Lunch:
1 rice flour tortilla (240cal, 5g fat, 6g protein)
cucumber, cherry tomatoes, lettuce
25 mayonnaise (185cal, 20g fat OMG, 0,2g protein)
20g edamer cheese (74cal, 5,5g fat, 5,5g protein)

afternoon snack or very early dinner (before 6pm)
1 coffee with 100ml full fat milk (60cal, 3,5g fat, 3,5g protein)
150g full fat jogurt (100cal, 5,5g fat, 6,5g protein)
1 banana (100cal, 0,5g fat, 1g protein)


Totals: 1200 cal, 45g fat, 30g protein
plus 60min fast walking

Today was the first day where I had to cheat, because I was too hungry (didn't have this in the days before)

My thoughts on how to do better:
- adding a baked potato (small one), because it contains calories but no fat/protein?
- or adding 1/2 cup of black beans (arount 100cal, 6g protein, zero fat)
- tomorrow I will try to buy whole grain tortilla instead of rice flour tortilla :)
- any other ideas? I don't want to eat too less and end up cheating or not ovulating
- also: many here took rice milk in their coffee instead of full fat milk - is that better for PCOS LE? I think I could get pure rice milk where I live
- sorry for all these questions. I think I have it almost figured out :)

[atomic sagebrush]

You do not count protein and fat in fruits and vegetables (including bananas)

Since I have you on the alternate diet you MUST have more protein and fat. I would also like to see you more at 1500-1800 cals. Very few people do 1200-1500 and it often ends up causing trouble for people (delaying or stopping ovulation)

Baked potato and black beans are both fine. Please have them!

Please have full fat dairy on the PCOS LE Diet. Rice milk is hugely carby and will wreak havoc with your blood sugar.

Both 2 and 3 meals are fine. I always had 3. Just push breakfast back (just like you did) and then still have 3 meals. That way you'll be able to fit in the additional foods in that third meal.

[Drunken Cockatoo]

Ah I got it. Today I added more calories by adding a big whole grain cracker with peanut butter with my first meal and by putting kidney beans in my second meal. Will count totals again tomorrow to better achieve getting 1500cal per day.

Btw are black beans better than kidney beans? I saw many others eat them here during LE Pcos diet

Did some of you get muscle ache from exercise? I hope I won't build muscles. But I have read somewhere here that building muscles is rather unlikely during the LE diet

My DH laughed and is amazed how much longer the sweets and chocolate are lasting in our house when I can't eat them :p:giggle:

[atomic sagebrush]

Perfect!

Both black beans and kidney beans are fine. Whichever you prefer.

Your muscles will ache from exercise, that's normal. But they can't build MORE muscle because you're not eating enough calories and protein.

LOL yes some time back I gave up sugar in coffee and tea and I was shocked when the bags of sugar lasted months! :)

[ForeverRestless]

Hi Atomic! Just dropping a quick question on the excercise while on the PCOS LE Diet.
I read that when on it, you can lower the time you exercise (did I get it right?) because to actually exercise even if for less time is better than doing nothing at all, for the blood sugar.
I currently do 40 mins cardio(indoor bike or outside running when allowed) or 40mins HIIT, just to keep in good shape. I do this 4 or 5 days per week. If I start the pcos Le diet, would I need to increase that or will it just work as it is?
Many thanks!
Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

It is best to do the full amount if at all possible. You will get best results with the full amount of exercise. BUT for people who have insulin resistance, any exercise is better than no exercise because it helps make your body react better to carbs and lower blood sugar faster.

[ForeverRestless]

Got it thank you vm Atomic!
I understand 1 hr is best but I relised it's not possible for me with 2 kids... but I don't want to play the couch potato neither as I want to look fit.
I am not sure what I will do next months since the situation is still very weird in my Country, but playing around the idea of ttcing again maybe This summer.
I would like to follow your advise and start the Alternate diet from May, so I post here a meal example for you to review when you can.

Breakfast:
Coffee + 40ml full fat milk

Lunch:
Rice (60gr) – 16gr carbs, 0 fat , 1,6 pr
Seitan (100gr) – 2gr fat, 25 gr pr Lettuce Corn oil – 15ml – 13,8fat
White wine – 100ml – 72 calories
coffee after lunch.

Snack: greek yogurt 0% : 1 cup – 23 gr pr

Dinner : Eggwhites – 250gr – 27gr pr
Veggies Corn oil : 10ml – 9gr fats
Ice-cream : 70gr – 18 carbs – 8 fats – 2 pr

It's 990 cals (the max I can possibly eat by now)
79gr proteins
66 gr carbs
40 gr fats

I totally suck at doing this so feel free to point out what’s wrong. I don’t love to eat meat anymore, so I will rotate the proteins with seitan, tofu and eggwhites and fish (occasionally). Chickpeas and beans.
I will complete with veggies and add whipped cream / full fat yogurt /Ice cream to try & budge with the fats.
I just realised how hard it is to include a higher amount of fats, since my diet used to beso light and fat free!
Is this configuration correct in your opinion?
Can I eat wholegrain creakers?
I will exercise for about 40-45 mins, 4-5 days per week. I don't feel I can do more with 2 lil kids, but what I do is very intense.
Also, I always suspected I had pcos, but I was never diagnosed with it. Every time I asked if I might have it I was answered no.My ovaries surely don't look policystic during the US I have mare but I have some secondary sign...such as some hairwhere they Shouldnt be (nipples, chin, abdomen line)...my cycles always been irregular, altho now they are super regular.Just for your information if it's helpful.
Plus, I gained back 5 kilos since I last ttced. I am more at a normal weight/bmi.
Thank you for any advise/insight!
Xx

[atomic sagebrush]

Please just go ahead and do some exercise. Couch potato has not gotten good results compared to exercise, so we bend the rules in favor of exercise. We don't KNOW that moderate exercise is bad for anyone (even on the standard diet) it's just a theory.

You don't need to count carbs at all. Just fat, protein, calories. The carbs will take care of themselves.

So I would first of all have you add in some fruit or carby veg like potato and corn to boost calories without adding protein.

Then, I would have you eat full fat yogurt to get more fat and calories.

Whole grain crackers are allowed!

Egg whites have a LOT of protein for very little calories. So I would have you add in something different like beans, nuts, grains, tofu that has calories and protein, not just protein. This will be lower protein and more calories so you'd be fitting in the limits for protein and calories by making that switch.

I am of the opinion a lot of us have tendencies towards PCO but never have the lifestyle that causes us to develop the full syndrome. Being on the alternate diet will really help correct any tendency in that direction!

[ForeverRestless]

Thank you soooo much Atomic!
You know I dropped the cals way too much in my last attempt and it's almost impossible for me to meet the 1200 cals daily. I tried to eat larger meals but I feel so sick... :(
What would you advise me to do?
I can eat like 800-900 cals per day at the moment (for any woman reading i know it's totally NOT ok, I did a big mess) but I ensure you I am still able to ovulate, I gained 5 kilos and my period is regular and not even light). My BMI is 18.6.
I feel it's hard to include a those levels of fats/proteins in so little cals...
In my case, what's a fair proportion fat/proteins that I have to meet to be able to follow the pcos diet?
Thanks for the exercise tip! I will do my best :happy:

[atomic sagebrush]

Add in a third meal (both 2 and 3 meals are equally acceptable on LE Diet - I had 3 when I got my girl) or even 4 if you need it to get up to the calorie intake.

But if you're really saying you truly can't eat more than 800-900 cals I think we need to figure something out like higher calorie smoothies or something to help you get enough food in.

What you're doing with eating a lot of egg whites, for instance, the seitan, and even the veggies, is that you're eating things that are very low calorie and yet filling. So we need to find options that are NOT very low calorie and filling to enable you to eat more calories with the same amount of eating, if that makes sense.

[PcosMama]

Hi everyone, IÂ’m new here but have been reading lots of great sway information to try and get up to speed.

IÂ’d like to try sway pink later this year but am worried a DD just isnÂ’t going to be possible for us, hereÂ’s the lowdown:

I am 37 as is DH and we have two wonderful boys, 7 and 4.

I have mild pcos diagnosed only by internal scan and longer cycles (c.35-50 days).

I believe BCP led to my pcos as I had regular periods as a teenager.

Between DS1 and DS2 I did not return to BCP and I still ovulated with long cycles.

Since DS2 my cycles have become shorter and regular although they still vary in length, usually around 30 days but varies 27-35 days. I have a short LT phase.

I should also say that I am fit and active, around 140lbs and height 5Â’6. I do around 30 mins cardio 4/5 times a week and some small weights for toning and abs, at time of TTC my boys that would have been around 4 times a week but this last year perhaps twice per week. I had blood tests a few years back which showed higher testosterone to begin with then a year or two later this had reduced to inside normal levels advised by my doctor but it was still at the higher end of this bracket.

DH has a low-normal sex drive, we have sex once per week roughly. He is a calm and kind man, pretty relaxed and chilled out, and he does 30 mins cardio also 3/4 times a week and he does some weight lifting also 3/4 times per week.

We both use whey protein powder with water. We both follow a low-medium carb and high protein diet which relaxes on the weekend when we also have some wine or beers.

My main worry is that my DH has more XY sperm. There are around 2/3 boys to 1/3 girls in his family on his dads side, but he has a brother. Both of my boys I believe were conceived on either O-2 or O-1 and I believe this because we had sex when I felt more in the mood that month and IÂ’ve noticed from tracking this past year that my sex drive seems to go up a day or two before I ovulate. However these were both one attempts and I donÂ’t recall sex in the days leading up to this. Therefore I am worried if we TTC a girl this will largely be the same as when we had our boys and with my assumption my DH is more boy zone anyway I feel sure weÂ’d have a third boy.

Any thoughts?!

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi and welcome! I have a few questions for you:

How short is your LP? How are you determining ovulation?

Could you increase your exercise to 60 minutes a day??

This is the type of diet I'd put you on: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/gender-swaying-general-discussion/9052-swaying-under-special-circumstances-part-3-pcos.html?highlight=swaying+PCOS (just scroll down the first few articles which are more for general info and then focus on the diet suggestions in this thread)

Your husband does not have more Y sperm. That isn't possible. Men are made up of XY cells that divide in the testicles to become half X and half Y. Even if his family seems to be more boys than girls, this is down to lifestyle commonalities and not genetic factors.

Even if you got your boys with one attempt, it doesn't mean you got them BECAUSE of one attempt. Nothing in swaying is a magic bullet or a guarantee, even the one attempt. So let's say that hypothetically because of lifestyle stuff, you came in to TTC with a 60% chance of boys, and because you did one attempt, you ended up swaying pink 5% and ended up with a 55% chance of boys. You swayed pink but still ended up more likely to have boys because of the other stuff. You would still want that 5%!!! It would be crazy to think "well I need to do the opposite" and even do the opposite on stuff you were doing that swayed pink for you to begin with! So just focus on doing what has worked for most people, most of the time.

Now, if you want to combine that with some sort of timing or frequency that was different, that's just fine, but just don't have more than one attempt to start with because one attempt really worked well!

[PcosMama]

Hi atomic and thanks for replying so soon.

My LP is looking to be at 12 days and I have worked this out because for the last 6/8 months I started to have painful ovulations. I get a very heavy, cramp style feeling in my abdomen, sore back and twinges in my ovary which I hadnÂ’t had before this past year. This lasts a couple of hours then stops. It is usually following a day or so of a higher libido and clear, thinner CM. I then monitor CM following this and it is usually drier and/or cloudy. This is how I am monitoring, plus I keep notes so that I can refer back once 12 days have passed and AF begins.

I guess for a short while I could increase my exercise to 60 minutes a day - is this 60 mins of cardio and do you think I need to stop with the weights or protein powders re my testosterone? I have noticed I keep getting 1-2 acne spots each month on my chin or jaw this past year. My only hesitation on the extra cardio is that I think I could only do this for a few weeks as if I lost more than 10/11lbs I would be at my lightest weight ever and would start to look too thin (my mom would start giving me a hard time haha 🤣

Thanks I will check out the diet thread now...

[Kazzzz]

Which is better Greek yoghurt or full fat dairy? I've heard both mentioned? Alot of the yoghurt at our store is low fat high sugar so annoying mite have to buy the more expensive fancy tubs but watch sugar?

[atomic sagebrush]

Which is better Greek yoghurt or full fat dairy? I've heard both mentioned? Alot of the yoghurt at our store is low fat high sugar so annoying mite have to buy the more expensive fancy tubs but watch sugar?

As long as they're both full fat, either Greek or regular yogurt are fine. You are trying to avoid skim/part skim dairy.

Yogurt is one of those things we allow you to continue having with sugar. When we say "avoid sugar" we mean cookies, candy, cake, soda pop, putting scoops of sugar in tea or coffee, fruit mixed with sugar, that sort of thing. Sugar in yogurt and added to sauces (like pasta sauce often has sugar in it) does not need to be avoided.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi atomic and thanks for replying so soon.

My LP is looking to be at 12 days and I have worked this out because for the last 6/8 months I started to have painful ovulations. I get a very heavy, cramp style feeling in my abdomen, sore back and twinges in my ovary which I hadnÂ’t had before this past year. This lasts a couple of hours then stops. It is usually following a day or so of a higher libido and clear, thinner CM. I then monitor CM following this and it is usually drier and/or cloudy. This is how I am monitoring, plus I keep notes so that I can refer back once 12 days have passed and AF begins.

I guess for a short while I could increase my exercise to 60 minutes a day - is this 60 mins of cardio and do you think I need to stop with the weights or protein powders re my testosterone? I have noticed I keep getting 1-2 acne spots each month on my chin or jaw this past year. My only hesitation on the extra cardio is that I think I could only do this for a few weeks as if I lost more than 10/11lbs I would be at my lightest weight ever and would start to look too thin (my mom would start giving me a hard time haha ��

Thanks I will check out the diet thread now...

I'm so sorry I missed this at the time. When you have specific swaying questions, it's best to start independent threads to ask them instead of adding them onto these very long support threads, as most of the posts in support threads are people just chatting with each other and it's very time consuming for me to read every one of them, and additionally because it's too confusing for everyone to keep track of who I was talking to. I will always answer you, and if I don't answer, I need you guys to bump your posts OR send me a PM (after I have had a reasonable amount of time to reply, like 4 days or so) because sometimes I miss things.

Now, to answer this question, ovulation pain does not tell you if you ovulated or when. People get O Pain before, during, and after O. So that is not a really reliable way to know when ovulation has taken place. If your LP is truly 12 days that's fine, and you don't need to do anything even if your cycles have gotten shorter. But we'd need to do temping and charting, plus possibly OPK as well, to really have the best certainty.

Yes, you'd need to do 60 minutes of cardio and drop weights. No one swaying pink should be on protein powder. You should start off eating upper levels or even a little beyond, of protein, fat, and calories while starting exercise and see what your weight does. We don't allow people to lose too much weight (although some people do, that is on them as I do everything in my power to keep them from doing that). Once you hit BMI 21, stop losing weight and just hold steady, and a small amount more weight sometimes comes off over the course of time and you've left that small margin of safety. But the absolute "do not drop below this weight under any circumstances" is BMI 18.5. So you should eat as much as you need to prevent losing too much along with exercise.

[Kazzzz]

So aslong as with overal daily limits i can have milk an yoghurt as much as i like as long as with meals and within daily limits? Just trying to understand every detail of the pcos diet so i learn it all then i can meal prep an plan an get use to it so i can relax into the diet have everything laid out an learnt lol also high nutrients doesn't sway? Aslong as within daily limits? Should we avoid anything at all like say oats? Even if for lunch at 12pm? My boy mum personally likes to know everything so I'm feeding that so it shuts up an lets me sway without the controlfreakyness🤣

[Kazzzz]

Also can we have a little bit of fruit apart from apples and pears? I just had half a cup of pineapple with my daily serve of greek yoghurt and oh my my delicious!! It felt like a sweet cheat lol

[Kazzzz]

1 more thing when you say we should have full fat dairy I'm guessing that also goes for mayonnaise?

[atomic sagebrush]

So aslong as with overal daily limits i can have milk an yoghurt as much as i like as long as with meals and within daily limits? Just trying to understand every detail of the pcos diet so i learn it all then i can meal prep an plan an get use to it so i can relax into the diet have everything laid out an learnt lol also high nutrients doesn't sway? Aslong as within daily limits? Should we avoid anything at all like say oats? Even if for lunch at 12pm? My boy mum personally likes to know everything so I'm feeding that so it shuts up an lets me sway without the controlfreakyness🤣

Kazzz, I feel like we are having some sort of fundamental miscommunication here, LOL. I promise you that I would not be telling you over and over again that dairy is ok within limits if it wasn't ok. My answer isn't going to change. I am not missing anything, I completely understand your question, and I repeat: Full fat dairy within limits is and always has been ok on the alternate PCOS-type LE Diet. Avoid skim and part skim because the concentrated milk sugars in it aggravate PCOS. Our good results with the alternate style LE Diet are in people all of whom did exactly this.

YES, you can have milk, yogurt, cheese, etc, any dairy food, within limits, as much as you want. Within limits. Now, eating a massive amount of dairy alone may not be the best way to get adequate calories, fat, and protein on the diet (because you'll likely quickly go over on fat and protein, then have a lot of calories left to eat and you've used up your fat and protein) but that is a separate problem of PRACTICALITY and not because "too much dairy ruins my pink sway". As long as you're in the limits you can have dairy without limits, but keep in mind you need to be getting ENOUGH food as well and there is more than just dairy to think about.

To illustrate: drinking six cups of milk, for example, will put you at 48 g protein, 48 g fat, but only 1280 calories. How will you get up to the 1500-1800, or even beyond that to 1800-2000 (since that is what most people breastfeeding need) because now you've spent so much of your protein and fat on milk?? It's also not a balanced diet (you'd be perilously low in iron and Vitamin C, for starters), would not satisfy you at all, may upset your stomach, and would be so darn borint it would very likely set you up for cheating. But that doesn't mean you can't have dairy within the limits, it means that focusing too heavily on ANY one thing is never a good approach.

The stuff you're thinking of in terms of "avoiding fortified foods" are things with large amounts of added nutrients crammed into them like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereal, where you're eating them and getting massive intake of ALL your day's nutrients - things that have the equivalent of a whole ground up vitamin pill in them. Not regular ordinary foods. Even foods some with minor fortification, like dairy and pasta - are fine in your sway. We just can't get away from that. Please note, that even if you had 6 cups of milk like I described above, that would still be less than 100% Vitamin D and well within pink range on potassium according to the mineral diets, if that is important to you, so having dairy foods is absolutely NOTHING like taking a multivitamin or eating fortified foods.

atomic tough love alert: What you are doing here, asking me the same question over and over again, IS control freakishness. I understand you guys tell yourself that if you just can only get your every doubt erased, eventually you'll get to some place where you'll relax, but it's the process of trying to have those doubts erased that is the issue. a) "I feel anxiety about my sway b) "I'll ask atomic about this, so I can alleviate my anxiety c) "atomic answered me, but did she really understand what I was asking? Maybe she misunderstood. Yikes, maybe she was wrong??? Now I feel anxious again" d) "I'll ask her again just to be absolutely SURE and then my anxiety will go away". But it never works because it's natural to feel anxious about sways, so you're back at square one again, repeating that process over and over again (and in many cases actually going back through old posts, or dredging up studies, trying to catch me in a mistake or a lie - not saying you are doing this, Kazzz, but some people do, and OVERWHELMINGLY they have more boys, even with extremely micromanaged "perfect" sways full of mindnumbing attention to detail)

This is exactly what I don't want you to do. Plus, it takes up my time answering the same question over and over again and your other thread is still sitting there unanswered since I've taken so much time with this.

Trying to micromanage your environment and alleviate your anxiety by overly focusing on details that are either totally meaningless or that you've already gotten an answer on is a big red flag for me, so I'm hoping that we can put this behind us now and you can accept the answer I've already given you.

[atomic sagebrush]

Also can we have a little bit of fruit apart from apples and pears? I just had half a cup of pineapple with my daily serve of greek yoghurt and oh my my delicious!! It felt like a sweet cheat lol

All fruits and vegetables are allowed. Same rules apply - on fruit and high carb veg, count cals only, not protein or fat, and low carb veg are free and unlimited, no need to count. Pineapple is a great choice for that very reason, it really is "nature's candy" LOL.

[atomic sagebrush]

1 more thing when you say we should have full fat dairy I'm guessing that also goes for mayonnaise?

Mayonnaise is not dairy. It has no milk or milk products in it and is based on vegetable oils. It does not count for a serving of full fat dairy and isn't beneficial to your fertility in the same way that a serving of full fat dairy is. You can have mayonnaise within limits and it can be a way to get some fat when you need to, but it's not beneficial in the way that dairy is.

BTW - steer clear of "lowfat" mayo and similar things of that sort as they often have carbs added to make up for the fat in them, which is a step in the wrong direction.

[Kazzzz]

Kazzz, I feel like we are having some sort of fundamental miscommunication here, LOL. I promise you that I would not be telling you over and over again that dairy is ok within limits if it wasn't ok. My answer isn't going to change. I am not missing anything, I completely understand your question, and I repeat: Full fat dairy within limits is and always has been ok on the alternate PCOS-type LE Diet. Avoid skim and part skim because the concentrated milk sugars in it aggravate PCOS. Our good results with the alternate style LE Diet are in people all of whom did exactly this.

YES, you can have milk, yogurt, cheese, etc, any dairy food, within limits, as much as you want. Within limits. Now, eating a massive amount of dairy alone may not be the best way to get adequate calories, fat, and protein on the diet (because you'll likely quickly go over on fat and protein, then have a lot of calories left to eat and you've used up your fat and protein) but that is a separate problem of PRACTICALITY and not because "too much dairy ruins my pink sway". As long as you're in the limits you can have dairy without limits, but keep in mind you need to be getting ENOUGH food as well and there is more than just dairy to think about.

To illustrate: drinking six cups of milk, for example, will put you at 48 g protein, 48 g fat, but only 1280 calories. How will you get up to the 1500-1800, or even beyond that to 1800-2000 (since that is what most people breastfeeding need) because now you've spent so much of your protein and fat on milk?? It's also not a balanced diet (you'd be perilously low in iron and Vitamin C, for starters), would not satisfy you at all, may upset your stomach, and would be so darn borint it would very likely set you up for cheating. But that doesn't mean you can't have dairy within the limits, it means that focusing too heavily on ANY one thing is never a good approach.

The stuff you're thinking of in terms of "avoiding fortified foods" are things with large amounts of added nutrients crammed into them like power bars, meal replacer shakes, breakfast cereal, where you're eating them and getting massive intake of ALL your day's nutrients - things that have the equivalent of a whole ground up vitamin pill in them. Not regular ordinary foods. Even foods some with minor fortification, like dairy and pasta - are fine in your sway. We just can't get away from that. Please note, that even if you had 6 cups of milk like I described above, that would still be less than 100% Vitamin D and well within pink range on potassium according to the mineral diets, if that is important to you, so having dairy foods is absolutely NOTHING like taking a multivitamin or eating fortified foods.

atomic tough love alert: What you are doing here, asking me the same question over and over again, IS control freakishness. I understand you guys tell yourself that if you just can only get your every doubt erased, eventually you'll get to some place where you'll relax, but it's the process of trying to have those doubts erased that is the issue. a) "I feel anxiety about my sway b) "I'll ask atomic about this, so I can alleviate my anxiety c) "atomic answered me, but did she really understand what I was asking? Maybe she misunderstood. Yikes, maybe she was wrong??? Now I feel anxious again" d) "I'll ask her again just to be absolutely SURE and then my anxiety will go away". But it never works because it's natural to feel anxious about sways, so you're back at square one again, repeating that process over and over again (and in many cases actually going back through old posts, or dredging up studies, trying to catch me in a mistake or a lie - not saying you are doing this, Kazzz, but some people do, and OVERWHELMINGLY they have more boys, even with extremely micromanaged "perfect" sways full of mindnumbing attention to detail)

This is exactly what I don't want you to do. Plus, it takes up my time answering the same question over and over again and your other thread is still sitting there unanswered since I've taken so much time with this.

Trying to micromanage your environment and alleviate your anxiety by overly focusing on details that are either totally meaningless or that you've already gotten an answer on is a big red flag for me, so I'm hoping that we can put this behind us now and you can accept the answer I've already given you.



Yes absolutely i understand all foods accept highy fortified foods are allowed within the daily limits of fat pro an cals got it. I think its not knowing this new diet thats got me double guessing everything I'm trying to remove the old swaying guide lines from my brain lol theres been so many different sways in the past not just here but all over like you know. Sorry for putting you on repeat and yep you're right i keep thinking did i ask the question right are we on the same page haha. Thank you so much for all your help i truly truly appreciate it.
1 thing i was thinking about is should we be trying to get some dairy in or just use it as a tool to get fat/pro up if needed? We can have no dairy and thats fine? Just thinking about trying to avoid it as its upsetting my stomach.

[Kazzzz]

Anyone have any easy meal ideas? I've been mostly girlsway dieting for the last 4 months my first attempt will be in 7-12 wks time see how i go. I'm trying to wait longer then needed just so i can avoid my children sharing birth months lol. Anyway I'm living off of
Stir-frys
Soups
Sandwiches
Rice
Fruit
Yoghurt
Hummus
Would be nice to have some different meals. It mostly feels like I'm eating sides only.

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes absolutely i understand all foods accept highy fortified foods are allowed within the daily limits of fat pro an cals got it. I think its not knowing this new diet thats got me double guessing everything I'm trying to remove the old swaying guide lines from my brain lol theres been so many different sways in the past not just here but all over like you know. Sorry for putting you on repeat and yep you're right i keep thinking did i ask the question right are we on the same page haha. Thank you so much for all your help i truly truly appreciate it.
1 thing i was thinking about is should we be trying to get some dairy in or just use it as a tool to get fat/pro up if needed? We can have no dairy and thats fine? Just thinking about trying to avoid it as its upsetting my stomach.

I think I replied to this in the other thread, where I moved all your questions, but just in case anyone was wondering, yes, you can sway without dairy foods if you'd like, but there is something really helpful with dairy fat for continuing ovulation. Dairy is also a good way to get some fat and protein all at once, WITHOUT going overboard on carbs:

1 serving beans (I picked navy beans but they're all roughly the same): 127 cals, 8 g protein, 0 fat, 24 g carbs

1 serving full fat dairy (I picked milk, but yogurt and cheese have lower carbs if you need fewer carbs for PCO tendencies): 160 cals, 8 g protein, 8 g fat, 13 g carbs

So when you pick dairy instead of beans, for roughly the same amount of calories you're getting fat as well, but fewer carbs (and since beans are usually flavored with something, this often adds more carbs to the mix).

A person who was fully vegan, eating beans and rice and never having any dairy, would end up eating far more carbohydrates to get an adequate amount of protein and fat. It's certainly fine to eat beans, but I'm just saying why it is that dairy is such a handy thing for PCOS-type LE Dieters.

[atomic sagebrush]

Anyone have any easy meal ideas? I've been mostly girlsway dieting for the last 4 months my first attempt will be in 7-12 wks time see how i go. I'm trying to wait longer then needed just so i can avoid my children sharing birth months lol. Anyway I'm living off of
Stir-frys
Soups
Sandwiches
Rice
Fruit
Yoghurt
Hummus
Would be nice to have some different meals. It mostly feels like I'm eating sides only.

I'll give a list, some of this stuff is very "American style" but this is what worked for me.

Pasta is allowed, did you know that? So right there you could add in marinara or mac and cheese (I'd stick with homemade on the mac and cheese using real cheese, as boxed Kraft Dinner is higher carb). I would occasionally have vegetable ravioli and tortellini/pasta salad made with cheese and Italian vinaigrette as well.

Have you tried any potato stuff?? homemade au-gratin potatoes (not the boxed stuff which is highly refined and carby, but actual potatoes, butter, cheese), baked potato with sour cream/butter/cheese, baked sweet potato, potato salad (the non-sweet kind, with hard boiled egg to boost protein) mashed potato bowl with some cheese, sweetcorn or cole slaw, and a few small pieces of chicken on top - I LIVED on this stuff when I was swaying.

Do you ever have beans/rice or pasta/cheese in combination?? Even though I was just describing why giving up dairy totally in favor of vegan proteins isn't necessary or ideal, you can still have beans sometimes. I mixed refried beans with rice, cheese, and salsa for an easy casserole.

Bean burritos, Taco Salad (vegetarian chili beans or refried beans, salsa, cheese, a small amount of corn chips, then salad dressing of your choice) Mexican-seasoned vegetables cooked and put into a wrap with cheese and sometimes an egg (usually peppers, mushroom, onion, courgette, but I tried it with cooked potato and even sweet potato, and avocado, and it was always good) and bagels with cream cheese, or for a larger meal cheddar cheese/egg are also things I ate regularly.

[Kazzzz]

Cool thank you heaps for the ideas i do eat beans an rice not as much as the rest above but i have recently been eating bean/veg pattys home made I'm trying not to think about carbs lol hard to do sometimes. I'll definitely try some of this stuff my partner will be happy. I like eating large meals so choose things lower in everything so i can eat tons more in one meal session haha

[Kazzzz]

I'll give a list, some of this stuff is very "American style" but this is what worked for me.

Pasta is allowed, did you know that? So right there you could add in marinara or mac and cheese (I'd stick with homemade on the mac and cheese using real cheese, as boxed Kraft Dinner is higher carb). I would occasionally have vegetable ravioli and tortellini/pasta salad made with cheese and Italian vinaigrette as well.

Have you tried any potato stuff?? homemade au-gratin potatoes (not the boxed stuff which is highly refined and carby, but actual potatoes, butter, cheese), baked potato with sour cream/butter/cheese, baked sweet potato, potato salad (the non-sweet kind, with hard boiled egg to boost protein) mashed potato bowl with some cheese, sweetcorn or cole slaw, and a few small pieces of chicken on top - I LIVED on this stuff when I was swaying.

Do you ever have beans/rice or pasta/cheese in combination?? Even though I was just describing why giving up dairy totally in favor of vegan proteins isn't necessary or ideal, you can still have beans sometimes. I mixed refried beans with rice, cheese, and salsa for an easy casserole.

Bean burritos, Taco Salad (vegetarian chili beans or refried beans, salsa, cheese, a small amount of corn chips, then salad dressing of your choice) Mexican-seasoned vegetables cooked and put into a wrap with cheese and sometimes an egg (usually peppers, mushroom, onion, courgette, but I tried it with cooked potato and even sweet potato, and avocado, and it was always good) and bagels with cream cheese, or for a larger meal cheddar cheese/egg are also things I ate regularly.

Also you mean wholemeal/grain pasta right?

[Kazzzz]

Mayonnaise is not dairy. It has no milk or milk products in it and is based on vegetable oils. It does not count for a serving of full fat dairy and isn't beneficial to your fertility in the same way that a serving of full fat dairy is. You can have mayonnaise within limits and it can be a way to get some fat when you need to, but it's not beneficial in the way that dairy is.

BTW - steer clear of "lowfat" mayo and similar things of that sort as they often have carbs added to make up for the fat in them, which is a step in the wrong direction.

My lite mayo has 1g carbs per serve is that ok? I gotta be honest i have been using it as its good to add flavour but I've only been having 1 serve a day its muvh lower in everything else compared to the full fwt mayo and when i eat things low in everything i can eat more lol i like lots of food

[atomic sagebrush]

Also you mean wholemeal/grain pasta right?

If you can stomach whole grain pasta, that's great. But pasta, because it's very high in protein, we often have people make exceptions there because whole grain pasta tastes absolutely terrible and it's super expensive. So even regular pasta will be a better choice than sugar or white breads.

[atomic sagebrush]

My lite mayo has 1g carbs per serve is that ok? I gotta be honest i have been using it as its good to add flavour but I've only been having 1 serve a day its muvh lower in everything else compared to the full fwt mayo and when i eat things low in everything i can eat more lol i like lots of food

Just use regular mayo. While 1 g carbs in a sauce (like marinara or salsa, for example) is perfectly fine because we don't worry about sugar in sauces, only in sweet treats, regular mayo is a great way to add cals of fat which you may be needing and you'll avoid the added sugar/carb in the lite mayo all together.

Most people on the alternate LE Diet do not ever use diet or lite products as nearly all of them have sugar added that you simply don't need. Like I'm saying, it's not a big deal, and I don't even want you counting carbs (Just cals, protein, fat plus avoiding sugar and white flour things) but there's no reason to have lite products and the real thing is better.

[Kazzzz]

Ok cool mite just skip all mayo because the full fat one is a waste of fat lol I'd rather use fat in more foods. I do use a lite French dressing but it has sugar an carbs equal to my full fat one's. I only use it because i like it

[atomic sagebrush]

It's up to you, if the lite mayo works better for you that's fine. the 1 g carb is not at all an issue. Most people on the alt. diet have the opposite problem, they have a hard time getting enough fat so that's why we often use full fat for them. But as long as it's not carb overload (and 1 g carb is definitely not that!) lite is ok too

[Kazzzz]

Creamy mushrooms on toast easy delicious and within limits.

3 wholemeal/wholegrain toast
10 or more mushrooms sliced
1 cup almond milk
Tyme
Salt / pepper
1 tbsp white flour (atomic says this amount is ok in food)
I finish the meal with a coffee with stevia and a splash of milk also a pear or an apple


Fry mushrooms in a nonstick pan no oil, then add flour an stir it in till lumpy then add the milk stir an reduce to a creamy consistency then add salt/pepper/tyme. Or you could have it on rice if your rice is low fat since some prepacked rice has added oil. or switch the milk for cows milk and switch the 3 toast for 2 pitta breads.

I like this meal because its super fulling could be doubled for dinner and can make switches depending what you have at home.

Total is
F15
P14
500 give or take a little bit not enough to worry.
I don't count the flour in at all.

[Kazzzz]

A quick an easy on the go meal is
2x wholemeal pitta bread with 1 tbsp if peanut butter shared between the two and then an apple or pear plus coffee with a splash of milk. I've been having this once a day lately as its a grab an out the door meal
I'm doing 3x meals a day total of 60/60/2000 because I'm breastfeeding so the meal above is roughly 15/15/500 but you could double it if only having two meals a day leaving the bigger meal for dinner if you like big dinners like me.

[Amlewis2257]

atomic sagebrush

How does this look does look for a lunch? I don’t have brown rice until I goto the store so I had to do white rice (I believe you said we still tolerate white rice with mild pcos?). I am truthfully having a hard time eating a lot, I have a low appetite, and this was honestly most I could stomach in one serving. I am also very petite (4’11), so I’ve always ate in lower range of cals

1/2 cup white rice
10 oz (like 1 1/4 cup) of frozen peas/ carrots blend
2 tbsp of Parmesan
1 tbsp on margarine
1 green apples

446 Cal - 8g fat 90g carb 17.5g protein


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

Oh yes the rules do change for people who are either very tall or very petite.

If need be, we will have you add in a fourth meal to ensure you're getting enough calories if your stomach just can't hold much food.

Yes that would be fine for a meal if you like it! Brown rice would ~probably~ be better if you tolerate it ok. If not, and your PCO-tendencies are mild, as long as you're eating some protein (which you are in the peas) with the rice white is still ok.

[Amlewis2257]

Thank you! [emoji4] I’m working on rotating similar meals by swapping the veggies/ seasonings with them for simplicity, I can stick to the same lunch for a long time luckily so it makes it easier for me. For dinner I am thinking of sticking towards pasta, would whole wheat pasta or sphagetti squash/ zucchini noodles be better for PCOS? I plan on putting a little cheese of ground chicken breast in it to balance my sugars


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[atomic sagebrush]

Don't think of foods as "is this better than that". Think of them as you're trying to accomplish a goal, and a BIG part of that goal involves eating enough to be sure you can continue ovulating. So some days you might find that you could use a lower protein, lower cal option like zoodles or whatever because you've already hit your limits, but other days, you might NEED the protein and cals in the regular pasta (and I suspect that given what we've talked about in the past, you will probably need the regular pasta most of the time since you're having trouble getting enough food.) So this can depend on what your diet is looking like overall any given day, which of these you choose. NO one should say "I must eat only zoodles because my sway" because if they were not eating enough overall, they might NEED the nutrients in regular pasta. Think big picture, not magic foods.

So now, the difference between whole grain pasta and white. The thing with pasta is, even white flour pasta, is pretty high protein and is often relatively forgiving for people with insulin resistance and/or mild PCO-tendencies (especially if they're not eating a lot of other refined carbs!) And while technically, whole grain pasta will be better, some people just HATE the flavor of whole grain pasta and won't eat it under any circumstances, limiting their sway diets even more so were we to insist upon that. Long story short, with the exception of those with severe PCO who are NOT changing their diet otherwise or are insisting on eating some other higher carb foods because they think they sway, most people can have regular pasta as a part of an overall sway diet.

I'll lay out a couple of no-nos:

What we DON'T want to see on the PCOS-type alternate LE Diet because it is starvation:

Skip breakfast
A salad with fat-free salad dressing, a few small bits of chicken, and a skim milk yogurt
Zoodles for dinner with margarine and parmesan cheese, diet cranberry juice, and a small skim dairy, artificially sweetened ice "cream" dessert.

This type of diet would be a disaster because you'd be eating low cal, low fat, and low protein. You'd stop ovulating. Even with the chicken and what feels like a dessert, it would be well below acceptable levels and you'd start seeing big disruptions in cycles not from PCO but from not getting enough food!

What we DON'T want to see on the alt. LE Diet because it is too high carb and would aggravate PCOS:

Skip breakfast

Pop Tarts, skim dairy yogurt, regular cranberry juice, and scrambled egg whites to "up protein"

Bagel with diet cream cheese, full sugar pop, package of gummy worms to "up calories"

Regular pasta with margarine and parmesan cheese, wine, diet "ice cream" with marshmallows to "up calories"

Technically, if the person was eating large enough servings of some foods, this could fit in the totals for cals, protein, and fat, but is quite carby. Now some of us can tolerate that type of diet just fine, particularly if they're lower BMI and are exercising, but for anyone with underlying PCO-tendencies this would cause disruptions in cycles even while eating within the limits!

So now, the diet of a person who wasn't swaying, and suffers from moderate, diet-uncontrolled PCOS might look more like this:

Big bowl of sugary cereal with 2% milk (not quite as bad as skim, but still much worse for PCO than full fat dairy is)

Doughnut or muffin midmorning at work

Turkey sandwich on white bread, chips, fruit juice

Sugar-sweetened Starbucks with 2% milk latte on the drive home

Pasta dinner with regular pasta, garlic bread, wine, and a few Oreos in front of the TV later.

This is not an extreme or unusual diet, it's in fact about the food intake I personally eat normally - about 2000-2500 cals a day, give or take - and I'm average height and weight. Many of us with all boys eat this amount and type of food and remain thin. Yet this person could still absolutely have skinny PCOS - even fairly severe PCO, particularly if they didn't exercise and did retain some extra weight just by their nature.

The reason I'm laying all this out here is to show you that if the first person eating Zoodles is a disaster, the second person eating Zoodles might be ok provided they took some additional steps to be sure they were eating enough calories overall, and the third person switching to Zoodles or whole grains, might help with their PCOS quite a lot. It's just not a matter of eating this food or that food generally, it matters what your diet is overall and in some cases you would benefit from Zoodles/whole grains and in other cases you wouldn't.

[Mochi]

Hello everyone,

Whilst I’m waiting for my personal plan from Atomic (big forever thank yous!) I am reading around the alternative LE threads so I can start to make some good changes straight away.

The 60 minutes exercise - does that need to be one big 60 minute chunk? I’ll find that almost impossible to squeeze in (plus I hate focused exercise (I like just having an active day like walking everywhere etc) and have prolapse which means most high intensity is off limits boo) but I could do a 40 minute walk and a 20 minute low impact HIIT later in the day. Would that still count or does it NEED to be 60 mins all at once?

[atomic sagebrush]

Sorry, my dad has been seriously ill this week and I haven't gotten everything done as quickly as I hoped I would.

While the exercise really does need to be in one chunk for most people (the reason is because after about 45 minutes, your body stops burning stores of carbs as fuel and starts burning fat stores, and something about this process seems to sway strongly pink - and shorter exercise doesn't accomplish that task) for anyone with a history of insulin resistance, PCO, more than 50 lbs to spare can get by with moderate exercise. In fact, people with a lot of weight to lose and PCOS MUST do some exercise even if it's only moderate because of the benefits of exercise to insulin response and weight loss.

So ideally you'd do the full amount, but since we suspect you need to be on the alternate diet due to history of gestational diabetes, I'm ok with you doing moderate or breaking it up into two pieces if youneed to.

[Mochi]

Oh I’m sorry to hear about your Dad! I hope he’s okay and recovers soon!

Alright thank you, I shall do as much as I can. I imagine I might be able to do a 60 minute slot once or twice a week, and broken up bits elsewhere so hopefully that will be enough to help - fingers crossed!

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks!!!

Fingers and toes crossed!!

[Mochi]

I’m trying to get to grips with eating LE for IR/PCOS but I’m still eating fairly carb heavy stuff and feeling really hungry throughout the day, even though I’m hitting my calorie and fat/protein numbers I’ve got a feeling I’m eating more HE than LE.

Can anyone share their favourite alternative diet LE breakfast, lunch and dinner?

Currently I’m eating a full fat yogurt with apple and a sprinkle of cinnamon for breakfast, having either a soup or some hummus with toast and veggies for lunch and then gagging for a snack about 3pm �� I’m having a fairly normal dinner but trying to keep the protein and fat low… I’m still filling the gaps with wholewheat carbs though and I have a feeling I’m meant to be focusing instead on the veggies rather than things like pasta ��

Help a mummy out? Haha!

[atomic sagebrush]

That is not an HE Diet. Even if you add in a fourth meal at 3pm it's still not an HE Diet.

Do you have totals for fat, protein, and cals? It's way easier for me to sign off on diet with that information.

It only FEELS like you're eating super carb heavy. What many people don't understand is that even on the alternate diet, you're still going to be eating what feels like a lot of carbs, but compared to what you were eating before, it's actually NOT because you're limiting calories overall. I have a more indepth article explaining that here: https://www.genderdreaming.com/forum/trying-to-conceive-a-girl/80991-le-pcos-diet-whole-grains-brown-rice-high-carb-intake.html but short version, because you're eating less overall, and the carbs you're selecting are healthier, in the vast majority of cases people end up eating far fewer carbs than they did when they weren't on the LE Diet, and WAY fewer white carbs (which are the ones that affect a sway negatively)

You don't have to focus on veggies instead of pasta. REmember, low carb veggies are free and unlimited, you eat as much as you want of those, no need to count them. You have to get 1500-1800 or even 1800-2000 cals a day from SOMEWHERE that is not low carb veggies. You can absolutely have pasta on the LE Diet within the limits. If you like whole grain pasta, that's ok, although it is not very tasty and so since it's higher in protein, we allow white pasta as well (I'm not at all picky, yet I think whole grain pasta is basically inedible, LOL) because the higher protein in it keeps it from acting the same as other white flour foods.

When I was swaying with my daughter, I hadn't yet figured out the need for the alternate diet but I did have a lot of alternate diet type meals. I would oftentimes have nuts or mozzarella cheese ****s plus a piece of fruit for breakfast but occasionally had a couple eggs, then for lunch I often had baked sweet potato with peanut butter or a bean and cheese burrito on a whole grain wrap or a baked potato with cheese or a small portion of leftover dinner, and then for dinner what I did (keeping in mind I was not on the alternate diet as I hadn't even come up with that yet) was basically just having what my family did only I skipped the meat. So I would often have salad or vegetable, bread (which you can easily sub for whole grain) OR rice (you could use brown, I used white) OR pasta and then sometimes even dessert. I'd often I'd eat a bite or two of the meat option to taste it as I was cooking but I just made everything I could with the meat separately so I could limit that. That was the best I could do without making myself too crazy!

[Mochi]

Okay then! Clearly I’m overthinking it haha! I’m weird and have always preferred wholegrain pasta (I like the nutty taste…) so that’s what we eat, and brown rice too!

My totals for today are as follows:
Calories: c.1500 (not counting green vegetable things!)
Fat:54g
Protein: 57g

So clearly I’m getting something right (I think!) it’s just my weird brain overthinking the carbs after my diabetes in my previous pregnancy (I literally couldn’t eat any carbs without my sugar spiking so even though that’s not true anymore it’s taking a while to get my head out of that mindset)

Thanks for your food ideas too! Really helpful to have a few more ideas up my sleeve!

I promise to stop overthinking it now ha!

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes!! It's easier than people think it "should" be after having read those ridiculous sway diets on some other sites where you're basically existing on cranberries and Diet Coke. And it's way easier too, in comparison to a gestational diabetes type diet.

Totals look great, just be sure you don't lose too much too fast!

[Amlewis2257]

I have done pretty good in avoiding sugar the past couple of months, minus some cheats. I don’t do sugar free, can’t stand the taste, but will sometimes have a teaspoon size sweet kinda treat with dinner to curb my sweet tooth. That tends to be my fattier / higher protein meal so it balances I assume. I also lots of fruits and that seems to usually curb me, but I do live by your motto if you truly want it have it, though I’d like to have some “goto” options that aren’t as bad.

I had gestational diabetes back with my son (don’t have insulin resistance at all currently), but was able to control by diet and I was able to have those yasso bars without spiking my sugar or the enlightened/ halo top bars. I included a pic of the nutritional facts, should I avoid these since they include nonfat ingredients? I also limit dairy to once a day so I wouldn’t eat these super often.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221109/ca811051a5083fae0c4c6c50e3e2950e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atomic sagebrush]

On occasion they're fine, but a serving of full fat dairy every day (there is no reason for the sway for you to limit dairy to once a day) will help get your cycle doing what it's supposed to do. Dairy fat is excellent at restoring ovulation when it goes missing and it's the first thing I suggest when your cycle has gotten wonky, so I'd strongly suggest IN ADDITION to having those as needed, 1 serving of full fat dairy every day.

[Pcoop]

Hi , Sorry for sounding stupid but what does LE mean?

[Pcoop]

Hi, sorry for sounding stupid but what does LE and HE mean? I've been reading up on a few posts about dieting and this always comes up. Thank you ahead for explaining.

[atomic sagebrush]

Hi, sorry for sounding stupid but what does LE and HE mean? I've been reading up on a few posts about dieting and this always comes up. Thank you ahead for explaining.

Low Everything and High Everything. These are the names of the diets that I made for this site. LE for pink, HE for boys.

[Mochi]

I tried to create a new thread but it’s gone wonky so I thought I’d post my question here. Sorry it’s so long:

Which is more important for a pink sway, for something who had gestational diabetes in the past: weight loss or the perfect diet to manage blood sugar/insulin?

Just that really. I think my husband may be coming round sooner than I thought and I don’t want to wait too long in case he changes his mind haha.

I’ve been working hard to change my diet. I’ve lost 2kg so far but am still much heavier than when I conceived my boy 5 years ago. I had gestational diabetes then so am doing the LE alternative diet. I’ve stuck to many aspects of it well, haven’t been perfect with food but definitely better than I was 2-3 months ago!

So, which is more beneficial to a sway… the weight loss itself (which I’ve achieved a little of with an imperfect diet) or the diet itself when doing the alternative diet?

Do I really need to be at my lowest conception weight? With the weight coming off this slowly I am pretty sure that’s take about a year to achieve.

I’m currently eating about 1,700-1,800 calories a day. Protein and fat within 60/70g and the rest of my calories from carbs. I am eating wholegrain and whole fats but have add the odd treat here and there - normally after my dinner. I know this needs to be the first thing to change but I’m just wondering how much my sway would be affected if we tried say, next month, with not much weight loss (by still some small weight loss) and a much improved diet.
Thank you

[atomic sagebrush]

Having been on diet 12 weeks or more is most important BY FAR. Weight loss honestly doesn't predict success reliably. In your sway plan I put but losing any weight can help. and If you’re actively losing weight when you get pregnant, it can help, but don’t go overboard trying to time weight loss. Lose what you can, when you can, IF you can, so it sounds to me like you are right on target.

I only ever said "lowest conception weight" because I used to get 400000000 questions on that every day. People who had a lot of weight to spare would be like "ok I'm this weight, is it ok to try now" and they'd ask the question very repetitively (like, every couple pounds). Other people who didn't have much to spare continued losing weight no matter what (this was before I had observed the BMI limits where people started losing ovulation, and I keep it in the mix because 80% of people are intimidated by the idea of calculating their BMI and need a hard number - since this varies by person, by height, it is still a useful goal number). Long story short, I had to pick a goal weight for practical reasons but no one should ever feel that they have to wait around for a long time to hit that goal. It is TIME ON DIET and also if you've lost some weight, that's great.

[Mochi]

Thanks atomic! I have replied in my thread you fixed so we don’t clog up here too much. Thanks again for all your support ;)