2022 TWW Thread!

[Cookies22]

Oh that's good to hear! I worry I have too much rice-based stuff; we often have noodle soup every week with white rice noodles, and pad thai that also uses white rice noodles... lots of risottos etc, but if we have rice with a curry etc we always choose brown rice. I guess you just have to go with the flow especially when preparing family meals.

[atomic sagebrush]

As slim as you are, all that is just fine. Let's not worry about those things!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I got a pos OPK yesterday morning and we BD shortly after (No O for me). I’m a bit worried as I did a J&D, but later read that J&D involves laying flat for 5 min… I got up pretty soon after BD, maybe 2 mins after, or 3 mins max. I feel so stupid for doing that now! We thought that visitors had arrived at our house, and also my DS kept trying to walk into the bedroom, so I had to jump up lol.

I went to the bathroom, did a wee, little wipe and then came back to bed to lay with DH for another 10 min, so hoping that works in my favour & still makes it a decent attempt. I’ve read mixed things online, most studies & obgyns say laying down after doesn’t make a difference, a few say it does. I've read a lot of women have gotten pregnant when they pee straight after sex, apparently the semen coagulates for 30 min which makes sense as it is SO thick to start with and then goes runny (again, TMI).

DH had a coffee this morning an hour before our attempt so maybe the J&D was a good idea. TMI but there was lots of liquid seeping into my undies all afternoon yesterday, so I’m hoping there’s plenty up there despite the quick stand-up. When I went to the bathroom and wiped there wasn’t a much semen there after BD, but there was a lot of seminal discharge throughout the rest of the day. Hoping 2 min isn’t too different to my usual 5 min wait (which I did with both of my boys)!

We BD with deep penetration so I know the sperm was deposited right at the cervix. I've read that millions of spermies swim up to the cervix and fallopian tubes within the first few seconds / first minute, so I'm hoping that's true! Hubby has a higher than normal sperm count & volume (we had it tested when TTC #1).

We'll probably continue on the E4D pattern this month too. Would you recommend the Mon / Thurs option for us or the Mon / Fri option?

We had an attempt yesterday morning on CD11 when I had a flashing smiley OPK. I'm nervous about missing the egg, especially because we J&D. I got another flashing smiley face OPK this morning (CD12). Hubby's birthday is on Tuesday (CD14), so we could BD super early that morning before the kids are awake, which would have us on E4D Monday / Thurs pattern.

I get ovulation cramping every cycle, so I will find it really hard not to BD if that comes along earlier than CD14! But then I've read that ovulation actually occurs 24-48 hours AFTER the cramping anyway? I'm wondering if we could still conceive the morning after O cramping if it happens the evening of CD13, I guess that attempt would then fall into 0+12 category. But then sperm takes 10 hours to capitulate & egg only lives 12-24 hours... argh it's all so confusing.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just hard with the time difference, I'm trying to work out a game plan in advance lol because when I'm in day time, you're in night time! It's hard because hubby isn't across the swaying stuff. I guess worst case scenario is we have an attempt late in the evening of CD13 instead of morning of CD14? I could wake hubby up at midnight for a birthday surprise haha.

So my main question is, if I get Ov cramping tomorrow night (CD13) and we BD early the morning of CD14 (which would leave us in the E4D category), do you think the sperm will still have a chance to get to that egg? Or in that instance am I better off BD late the night of CD13, during / after Ov cramping?

[atomic sagebrush]

Well, a lot of people WANT an immediate J and D. There will be leftovers (yep, semen doesn't liquefy for a while, but sperm can already start leaving before that point - it is thought by many that the liquefication is not for conception, but for getting rid of the "leftovers" after the sperm has already made it to the safety of the cervical crypts) and a lot of sperm will have already left the semen after 2-3 minutes and gotten to safety. You can get up immediately after sex, shower, cook dinner for 24 people, and run the Boston Marathon and still get pregnant.

yes it's very common to have that increased discharge after sex for quite some time after intercourse, too. But semen is not sperm, the sperm try to flee the semen upon deposit and by that point it was probably just dead/dying sperm and any potential pathogens being gotten rid of. This is partly how your body prevents infections.

Monday Thursday. I only ever use Mon/Fri for people who are just starting off and can't use OPK for some reason. Your call, but that would be my vote.

O pain tells you nothing reliable. Many of us start having O pains long before O (I have really horrible O pains and have had them as early as CD 3) and they can carry on till afterwards. Having O pains for up to 3 days after O is not uncommon, and some months I've had them after O for up to 7 days. Your O pains, contrary to popular belief, are not necessarily or even typically caused by the process of ovulation happening. They can happen beforehand because your ovaries develop a lot of eggs on both sides and ovulation may actually RELIEVE O pains for some people (like popping a ripe zit) at least on the side they ovulated. We have had a LOT of people who swear they ovulated from one side only to find it was the other, and people who thought they'd ovulated but didn't or had a week before! And as for afterwards, the tubes cramp to move the egg down, and the fluid the ovary releases along with an egg may cause irritation as it hits the outside of other organs.

Long story short, O pains are useless.

I already explained about O+ 12 in this thread so I'll refer you back there. Suffice to say none of this tells us anything about when your attempt was in relation to O.

I would personally just stick with the e4d pattern.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I got another flashing smiley face this morning (CD12), so I'm happy about that as the timing will be good for another attempt tomorrow morning! Thank you for all of your help xx

[Cookies22]

Hi Atomic,

Just wondering if you’ve had any experience with this…

I usually get ov cramping each month and it’s quite distinct, usually located on one side and usually lasts a few hours and then subsides. I can’t remember a month where I haven’t had ov cramping. This month, following the MC, I’ve had ovulation pain for the past 3 days. It’s not as severe as usual, but there’s definitely something going on there on and off for 3 days. I haven’t used OPKs much, but last month I went from blank circle straight to solid smiley face high fertility on CD11 (followed by ov cramps the night of CD11). This month I got a flashing smiley face on CD11, 12, 13 and 14. Ive had two attempts, one CD 11 and CD 14, but just wondering if you’ve any experience with this… I’ve heard cycles can be all over the shop after miscarriage, so I guess it makes sense. I’ve also read that if you don’t POAS at the exact right time you can miss your LH surge and therefore will just have infinite flashing smiley faces the rest of the month (I think I had this happen when I was TTC my first child). I’ve been using first morning urine, but often get up to pee when my 2 year old wakes at 3am, so then I use urine from a 3am-7 or 8am hold �� (speaking of which, I’ve been meaning to ask, does sleep deprivation sway at all?! I’m so tired!)

I’m going to continue on E4D until my period is due, & keep up with the OPKs, but just wondering if you have any insight into what could be going on?

Thank you xxx

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes, absolutely, and that's why I'm always urging you guys not to put too much stock into O pains or into OPK. Particularly after a loss and/or when swaying, these types of things can come in all sorts of weird and completely unpredictable ways and wreak all sorts of havoc with our best laid plans (this is a huge reason why we invented e4d to start with!)

Because lots of different things can cause "O Pains" including the cramping of the fallopian tubes after ovulation, what you are feeling may or may not be what you generally think of as O pains. Like I said, I've had what feels like O Pains while still having my period on CD 3, and as long as 7 DPO, and I could not have told them from the pains I normally feel right around ovulation. There are a lot of reasons why ovaries may be aching, like new eggs developing, or the corpus luteum from your last pregnancy breaking down, or because of hormones, and pain can be referred so it may not be ovaries but tubes, uterus, or whatever. We just cannot know and while I get that it's very hard for some of you to believe, when I have seen 123,456,789 people swearing to me on a stack of religious tomes that they felt O pains on a certain side and Oed from the other, or they're sure they knew when they Oed only to find out they never Oed at all, or had Oed 2 weeks before, or had been pregnant for a month, I simply can't read anything into it other than giving us a sort of vague "heads up" that something may be afoot. But then again it may not be!

As for OPK, also can be highly misleading. The notion that if you don't POAS at just the right time is silly (and causes endless amounts of stress for people, testing many times a day when that is not even necessary). What can happen is that people's urine doesn't get concentrated enough except if they get lucky enough to catch that, and also there's a lot of "pilot error" where people just aren't terribly consistent about when and how they test, skip days, drink water before, etc but this idea that there is any such thing as a super short surge, where the levels in your blood are only high enough a few minutes to trigger O is just not really a thing.

Now, it may be that you're ovulating later than normal this time through. It happens and is no biggie really. Keep testing and keep doing e4d and that way no matter what you'll be covered, even if you never get a true positive.

Yes, sleep deprivation does seem to sway pink! Many of us, myself included, got our girls when we were really running on fumes!!!

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I had another flashing smiley this morning, which brings me to five days in total of flashing smiley. Very strange! I just hope I'm ovulating, that's my biggest worry... I've had quite a lot of discharge so it feels like I'm ovulating, the cramps have subsided today too so maybe I ovulated but it hasn't been picked up by the tests. Either way I'm keeping up with testing with FMU and E4D BD pattern.

I wonder if it’s possible to still fall pregnant even if you never get a solid smiley face?

I would take my BBT but I am up pretty much every single night with my 2 year old, and often end up sleeping in his bed, then back in our bed, musical chairs and I rarely wake up at the same time every morning either, so I feel that tracking my BBT will just make the whole process more stressful / obsessy (I remember it being awful tracking my BBT when TTC my first child). If only there were some other way to magically track your BBT, or some other easy way of knowing if / when you've ovulated! Please anyone chime in if you know of one!

[atomic sagebrush]

It's not at all strange or uncommon. Some people get that every month and most people have it happen at least on occasion. The odds are you'll get a solid smiley still, within a few days' time in most cases, but we have seen people have very long periods of flashy (2 weeks or even more a few times) AND also people who go from flashy back to negative again (this depends on the kind of test you use)

Yes, you can absolutely still get pregnant even if you never get a solid smiley. Tests don't tell you definitively what is happening in your body. I've explained more about this in my previous reply where I talked about "pilot error" and I think elsewhere in this same thread (probably the O+12 messages). Your body has no idea what a line on a test says and doesn't care, either, LOL. It will ovulate regardless.

I agree you should not test with BBT. I think it would be too aggravating for you.

There is no way of knowing if and when O had taken place. If I had one I'd be screaming it from the rooftops, LOL. They do have the "Proov" tests but I have found them to be fairly unreliable and adding more stress for most people. The reason we use OPK to begin with is that they're the best we got.

[Cookies22]

Thanks Atomic. I had my solid smiley face show up yesterday morning, and BD early this morning on the 72 hour pattern.

I had SUCH painful ovulation cramps this morning at 2am, they woke me up and I was struggling to walk! I've had that happen before, once when I conceived DS1 and was on femara (had to go home and find a heat pack to relieve the pain), and a few other random times I can recall. Do you have any idea what that super intense ovulation pain could be caused by? I just hope I didn't drop two eggs but I felt it distinctly on my left ovary. I'm still a bit crampy this morning but nothing like how it was earlier today!