Where did the monster come from?

[ChezIBY]

Isn't it amazing how we can already get deep into our GD when we only have one kid/are having our first kid Artisam? When I see some of the veterans on this sire, who had like five or six kids of the same gender and then finally get what they want, I'm blown away by their patience and resilience!!

We're already prepping for an opposite outcome down the line, but let's give it our best shot, if only to say we did our best like you said.

[ChezIBY]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

[Burakoam]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

Not atomic, and not sure how you will feel about this from an all girl mom (but to be fair, i wanted all my girls to be boys, and its why i have 4 and not 2...)

I feel like in some situations its one of those things where as they get older you bond more...The way you describe yourself i feel like if you had a boy first you would still be obsessing over these very same things for your girl sway and wondering if you were missing out on things with him. All we can do is our absolute best for all of our kids wether we have a preference or not, no matter the order we get them in, etc..

and chez, as another who is not a pink and frilly kind of girl..there are MANY ways to shop for a daughter that doesnt involve pink and frilly. Make her YOUR little girl..not someone elses ...you think she looks better in black? put her in all black. Dont want her in hair bows or accessories? who needs them! Some of the cutest little girls i have seen are the girls in sweat pants and hoodies with long hair thats brushed well but not styled or done up all girly. My DD1 is this kind of girl My DD2 on the other hand i have to kind of grit my teeth with because she loves pink and frilly everything. DD3 is a mixture of both and for DD4 its too soon to tell

All of my girls love boy things and boy colors...my oldest two are heavily into video games like me and their father..

I didnt start getting close to DD1 until she was about 9. Before that i was kind of in 'survival mode' where i just did the best i could with her. She has never wanted for anything and she has always been a big mamas girl regardless...all you can do is your best, and yes i promise you will have 'something' take over you when your little girl is born..I personally dont call it love, i feel human beings take a while to bond with anyone even our offspring but thats what hormones and a family setting is for..it really cements that bonding and when you do fall in love with your baby its the kind of love that feels like its 'always' been there and i think thats why so many people have the mindset of "when they are born you will love them no matter what"

7 years into DD2 and still waiting to really and truly feel a bond with her but again she is a great kid and you wouldnt know it if you met her or me that we dont already have that bond....and yet on the other hand i have had this bond with DD3 since before she was conceived. It happens at different times with different kids i am certain of it..its not all related to gender disappointment and i think that just makes the whole thing more confusing especially with our firsts!

dd4 and i are struggling a tiny bit but only because she is a really hard baby. I still feel very close to her considering my failed sway and how i felt the first two times i became a mom...id say im not doing too bad right now.

I either came off as a completely terrible person or (hoping) i gave you something to look forward to and to have some hope of your own. at the very least some understanding that your feelings are normal and you arent the only one

[atomic sagebrush]

Thanks so much Atomic, a great relief to read what you have to say, both about GD being natural (so we can stop beating ourselves up about it!) and about the fact that you had strong GD yourself and a preference with your first kid even. Do you have any tips whatsoever about how to feel closer/more connected with the kid you already have/are having please? I feel like currently I am more focused on my eventual sway than the DD I am already expecting, which doesn't feel very fair towards her - maybe I'll just fall in love with her once she arrives the way others say they did and I should just wait patiently till then? I don't feel crazy about the 'go shopping for baby clothes and you'll get excited' advice, I am not much of a pink-frilly girl, meh.

It's different when it's your first. It is totally natural and normal to have a HUGE feeling of disconnect from "motherhood" when you're carrying your first baby anyway, then throw GD onto the top of it and it really makes it hard. Even when you want a baby and plan the pregnancy, your "mommy feelings" don't kick in until there is a real live baby present and not just an ultrasound image.

I remember when I had my first, I wanted a baby desperately, got a boy which I wanted, but never felt that "connection" when I was pregnant. He came out and I clearly remember thinking "OMG it's a baby!!!" I knew I was having a baby of course but it didn't hit me till that moment that at the end of it there would be a real live baby person that was going to be MY CHILD for now and forever. After I had had him for about a week, I suddenly looked at him and felt this huge rush of love and then realzed OH ok that's what everyone is talking about. But I never felt it when he was in my tummy and even after he was born I didn't feel that head-over-heels feeling till he was about a week old. And that was with a baby that was my desired gender!!

[ChezIBY]

You don't sound like a terrible person at all!! (in fact everyone who has replied so far on this thread has been so kind and open and has shared amzing info, it's mind-blowing). What you have said is REALLY encouraging and I thank you.

A relief, reading that the pink/sparkles/flowers won't necessarily be required daily with a DD. And a huge relief, reading your confessions about how your bond with your DDs grew and changed over time, this is just great. I feel like this is something I will be able to fall back on, if I feel weird at times, and remind myself that other folks have felt the same thing and that sometimes it takes time, even several years, but I will get there and if I feel some way now it doesn't mean it will last forever.

It's crazy how you felt a bond with your third DD before she even made an appearance! (I wonder why??) And how different it is from one kid to the other.

It's great that you're doing so well with your youngest (who must be very young considering she was born this year). Thanks for taking the time to share this and to give encouragement - this is whqt blows me away in this community, how unselfish the ladies are; I mean, your family is complete and you are taking the time to help me go over my questions, bothering to read this through and write out answers and advice.. thanks Warm wishes to you and your family

[ChezIBY]

Thanks Atomic That's great to read I feel kinda happy when i feel the kid moving around inside, bu that's the only 'connection' I've felt so far; it feels alien talking about an actual little girl coming over to live forever.. but knowing it was like this for you and that you went on to become this great mom is super, it's really reassuring

[kittendreams]

Kitten, I agree with Artisam here and I feel for you; I also agree a hundred percent with Artisam about how your desire for a daughter does NOT mean that something is lacjing in your relationship with your sons. You sound like a great mom, and I am genuinely impressed that after having such a complex history with your own mom you want to 'set things right'. I have a complicated relationship with my mom too - not abandonement, like you, more the opposite, she feels she has to control everything that me and my sisters do and we have to 'win her approval' - and it left me feeling more like 'what a messy story, mother-daughter relationships are super hard to get right'; while you, your approach is very brave in wanting to tackle the whole thing and build something great with a DD of your own.

This has actually inspired me quite a bit in regards to my own DD, like, I can see it from an angle similar to yours now - 'maybe the universe wants me to get a DD to get it right this time?' So thank you very much for sharing and I hope, in a sort of 'balancing out fairness in the universe' way, that you get your DD down the road let's be patient and keep going for it!!

PS We're going to be sway buddies kitten! I see you're planning on TTC in 17/18 (though you'll be swaying the other way lol). High-five

Oh what a sweet post Chezi thank you so much you sound like a wonderful mum yourself and such a compassionate person.
I can't even imagine living in your situation with your mum, feeling like you need to win her approval. I really feel for you in that and I hope you know you don't need anyone's approval but your own. You know who you are and if others can't see it or appreciate it then that is their loss xx
Just reading your posts makes it clear what an intelligent witty kind and generous person you are and any mum would be proud to call you her daughter.

Yes we will be sway buddies and I'm so glad because you are such a positive person it will be great to share the journey with you and to help eachother out!
I certainly know how to make beautiful boys so ask me anything you like xxx

[lindz]

Gender disappointment for me comes from feeling like everyone else gets what they want, why is it so hard for me? I always wanted both a boy and girl, but know that if I had gotten three girls instead, I would have been ok. Not having a girl though has been so hard for me. I feel like less of a woman having two boys as though that makes me more masculine or something. I love all things girly, so buying boy clothes and toys, while looking longingly at all the pretty girl dresses and dolls makes me sad. I have so many dreams of things I would love to do with a daughter, whereas for a son there was no specific dreams in mind, just thought it would be fun to have a boy. If I don't have a girl, I'll have to watch everyone else do the things I dreamed about doing, and feeling like I'm missing out on so much. There's some people I just feel have a "charmed life". They get everything they want without trying or even caring. When they get pregnant, they would be happy either way, but I just know they'll get the perfect girl/boy combo. So it's the feeling of why can't everything in my life be that easy? I try to step back and remind myself that I'm very lucky to even be able to have children, and I still have a chance of being able to have a girl


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[Throwaway_panther]

Warning! LONG post hahaha

I'm glad you started this thread Chezi, because I think it's a really valuable topic to discuss -- because, truly, I wouldn't wish GD on anyone. It reminds me of the saying, "Worry is the thief of joy" -- I feel having such strong desire/preference strips the joy of pregnancy (though I'd argue for many, there's only so much joy to be had during the experience, haha). Even for those who get what they desperately want, there's still the first trimester more or less of worry, and for many, all the way until 20 weeks or so of, "What if this fetus is not what I desire?"

That said, I will disagree while agreeing on one topic: I think GD (as in, gender desire) isn't wholly natural in the same way it's not wholly "baggage." Academically, we know that now -- nothing psychologically is really 100% one or the other. The nature vs. nurture debate has shown that, more often than not, an interplay of BOTH is what leads to whatever. Not everyone tossed into a warzone gets PTSD; not everyone who loses a loved one develops full blown clinical depression; not everyone who drinks alcohol becomes an alcoholic.

And that's where the sort of "natural" disposition might come in -- truly, not everyone develops GD. For some, maybe it's because the statistics show that people DO tend to get one of each most of the time... so we'll never know if someone would have developed a strong desire for a child of a certain sex, or would have gotten so depressed for not having the sex they desired. For others, yeah, maybe they had a preference and it got fulfilled and that was that. For others, maybe they really were happy with what they got -- there's plenty of one kid families out there, and again citing statistics, sticking to one kid is on the rise even in the U.S. (where we seem to have the means to have bigger families in terms of space, religion, etc.).

Or, there's the argument of maybe everyone has that natural drive, but even for those who don't get both (or at least what they want in the first place), they are able to get over it better than us.

And that's where I think the nurture might come in. Some of us are willing to really put work into getting not just a baby, but a SPECIFIC baby. Some of us get literally suicidal when we don't get what we want (I'll NEVER forget the article I read back when I hung around IG of the mother who killed herself while pregnant with boy twins because she so desperately wanted a girl and already had two boys -- I was literally that low at points while pregnant with my DD; this stuff can be serious). Even for those who aren't that extreme, we're here, right? Fundamentally trying to alter our diets, our bodies, sometimes even our personalities.

THAT is where I think we have both nature and nurture coming into it. For every person that goes, "Well, I just wanted both," there's so many more saying, "Well, ____ childhood." Every psychologist worth their salt knows: almost everything comes back down to the family. How we were raised affects how we grow, on levels so minuscule that some argue it even alters our DNA (see: studies on depression in the generations of descendants of people who lived in warzones!)

So, my long drawn out thesis? I think there is no one answer. I don't think it's just solely an instinctual drive; I don't think it's just solely "wanting girly things or being a tomboy." We're all fundamentally approaching this from different angles, and that's why -- like most things -- it's multifaceted and difficult to cope and fully conquer.


But! Talking about it, like on here, I think can only help all of us get there, too. Talk therapy helps for a reason! And I think the more we discuss this, the more we can hopefully at least help even one person either learn to move on beyond their GD and live a happy, fulfilled life.

Now, I say all this from an "outside of myself" perspective: I, like you Chezi, have a deep rooted desire to set impossible standards for myself but still get them. Be as thin as possible. Then it was as strong as possible. I worked multiple jobs in university while holding all honors and was hellbent on getting two PhDs at one point (which money eventually showed me, "Okay, impossible standards!").

Complex Emotions is a user on here who I really love her thoughts, so I hope she pops in, because she's said similar to you: for some of us, would it just be the next obsession after we get what we want? I've felt that. I've literally thought, "After I get my son, I can go back to getting as skinny as possible like I've always had. I don't think I'd care as much about a second girl so long as I got my boy first." And, afterall, we have swayers on here who already have at least one of their DG -- and no shade to them, because I get it and do still harbor desire for more than one boy. But they got what they want... and still comes the desire for "giving my daughter her sister" or "giving my son his brother" and so on.

You had argued in another post that maybe it's a consumerist drive, which I thought about, and I don't know if I fully agree with that so much anymore. We have so, so many swayers on here from countries that don't have quite the same capitalistic culture of certain Western countries (like the U.S., Canada, Australia, etc.). Old Wives Tales to try and GET certain genders and predict certain genders pre-date that capitalist/consumerist economy, too (which I think supports atomic's claim on the more natural/biological element, too).

I don't know, it's multifaceted. But good to talk about.

[Throwaway_panther]

Thought I'd make this in a separate post:

My specific reasons for wanting a DS?

I've detailed this elsewhere, but it's always a downer. Came from a GGG family where we were abused by our father, me sexually abused by him as well, and told and shown in multiple ways how much we were not wanted because we weren't boys. I have a long history of sexual abuse on top of that from others, as well, and have experienced about every element of violence and discrimination because of my gender -- I feared having a daughter. It brought up, despite already being in therapy, the deepest rooted issues and forced me to work through them. Which is hard; it is very, very hard to work through that trauma in normal times, let alone when pregnant. I felt I wouldn't be able to protect her because I couldn't even protect myself; I felt she'd never be safe or valued in this world because I and so many women don't seem to be. It was hard.

On the flip side, I also am a very typical boy mom personality. I actually am very good with kids and have no worries with any gender in terms of sharing their interests, fostering their love, etc. But boys have ALWAYS seemed attached to me, and I wanted one for my own -- a boy who loves me not as his aunt or his teacher or his babysitter, but as his mother. And for me to have a male who would finally not hurt me.

And, opposing how I was raised, I want to raise boys into feminist men -- men who see women as equals, men who treat women well, men who feel able to follow whatever their hearts and minds want regardless of gender stereotypes.

But my super secret selfish desire? A gay son. Which IS playing into stereotypes, haha.

But Chez, I will echo what others have said: I was and am like you to an extent, though thankfully you don't seem quite as... unhinged... as I was when pregnant. I was on here at 20 weeks pregnant with my DD, learning about and planning my sway for my son. I was despondent over having my DD and convinced I would be reliving my own upbringing: a feeling like I was resented for existing.

It's different for everyone, but my bond with DD was immediate upon birth. I don't exaggerate -- I opened my eyes after pushing her out (which, haha, don't want to scare you with that but... whew!) and saw her as my DH handed her to me, and someone even snapped a photo of me. It was enthralling. I am still enthralled to her. I sit here, with best friends from childhood around me, and still feel like my 10 month old DD is somehow my best friend. She still feels a part of myself despite being on the outside... and if you saw some of my posts when I first came to this site, I think you'd be amazed to see me writing this haha. I was NOT bonded in pregnancy at ALL.

I sometimes wonder if I needed to have my DD in order to finally tackle and conquer the darkest parts of myself. If I had had all boys like I dreamed, would I have ever fully examined and worked through my childhood sexual abuse? Would I have really been the best parent to all boys still not being my strongest, best self? I don't think so.

It's hard, and I've said this elsewhere: GD is awful for everyone, but there is a certain sort of torture for those who have it with their first and don't yet know that there IS a bond that will happen -- maybe at different times, like Buro and atomic showed, but it will come. There's also a hard part in not quite realizing that hormones alter and exacerbate our emotions and thoughts in pregnancy that's hard to stay apart of. Having at least one pregnancy and child under your belt can put that in perspective for the next kid, for sure -- I've been pregnant twice since DD, both losses, but I was already in a different place mentally than I was before and during DD with them.

You DO seem like you have a good handle on everything though, and I think that's wonderful to see.