LolaInLove's Infertility Journey

Zan, it was not fun....but I just tried to be positive and then think about my "dream" where I get to do it all again. I have this fantasy, really, about the whole thing....the u/s scan, the birth, the look on my DH's face, all that good stuff. I try to think about that when I feel bummed out and tell myself that it will be my turn again someday!

Hobbs, they don't have it yet, so we are just waiting on his appt this Friday. I am going with him and will have a million questions.....the doc said he and his wife had the "same problem" actually, and I am sure my DH didn't ply him with questions like I will. I asked R if he said he had to do IUI or IVF and he said he didn't ask, he just knows they did have a baby. I guess that is guys for ya....plus, well, he had just the doctor manhandling him in all sorts of unhappy ways. He probably didn't want to be all bro with him, LOL.

UGH, why do I let myself get my hopes up in these occasional months when I have something happen like some spotting that I think may, just may, be implantation spotting because it's 10dpo? I was actually excited this morning, thinking I will go dig out those FRERs from the bottom of some drawer of forgotten toiletries when I got home from work. Now I think I need to go get the tampons out instead. I've noticed my DH gets a little bit sweeter to me on the days he notices the box of tampons sitting by the toilet in the bathroom, which is sweet. I don't even say anything anymore.

Anyway, I am going to keep positive, that's all I can do. We'll got the follow up appt with the urologist on Friday morning. Looking forward to that. DH is down for 6 weeks with the surgery so it's like I have too many babies right now as it is!

Ah, Lola, sorry to hear that :(

Glad your DH is extra sweet when u need him to be. You and him will make a beatitiful child together :) I hope it happens sooner than later, but I got a feeling you will be holding a sweet babe in your arms again.

:( sorry Lola! I had my hopes up for you. :( Your DH sounds like such a great guy. :heart: I hope they have good news for you at the urologist appointment!

:nails: I just want to do an IUI if anything......praying no varicocele surgery needed. It's painful and expensive!!!

Well, this day is a good one only because dear sweet TTC5 has a healthy happy baby boy on the way! Bless her, I was afraid just before her bfp that she was going to be in my shoes. Life has a funny way of working out, huh?

We had our follow up this morning- and now my world is spinning again with WHAT TO DO. R's count was up to 19 million per ml, meaning his total "sample" had 93m because it was 5.5 ml. SO, that is an improvement. They consider 20m per ml to be the bottom of normal. However- his morphology is horrific. Only 1% of his sperm are "normal forms." This is why we kept having m/c he said. The urologist's advice- go IVF. He said he will happily recommend us to the local fertility clinic for a consult, and it may be that they could try an IUI first, but with so few normal sperm, the washed load to put up me would be small in number and less likely to do the job. He said our best option for a normal baby is to do IVF with ICSI. After that, he said we could continue to try, but it could be forever, and with my age being 36, time is not on our side.

So, I feel a bit helpless today. R (who is on percocet, so isn't really all there) was all excited when we left, like "my count is up!!!" I could barely hold it together in there. I don't think he got it. The doctor was being optimistic in tone....he didn't want us leaving and driving straight off the nearest bridge, for pete's sake. I had to give R a dose of reality and he got mad at me for being negative. I just told him it's reality, not being negative. Oh, and then the doc tells us how he and his wife had problems (although he didn't go into detail about his sperm, but I gathered they had something wrong there), and two months after they gave up and just didn't care anymore, they got pregnant. He says he thinks there is something to cortisol levels in the woman that can interfere with getting pregnant. So, R says we need to chill. RIGHT. I don't know how to accomplish that right now. I am an action person. I need to DO something about it, decide mentally what we are doing so I have a plan. You guys know how I am about having a plan.

So, what do you think? I need some honest opinions here. Should we activate Czech Plan and just ttc in the meantime? Should we go to the local fertility clinic and pay $2,000 for IUI that may not work and try that first? Should I just try to convince myself that I don't need or want another baby? I wasn't good at it 6 months ago, but given this new information, I could try again. Should we think about donor sperm? At least if I do that, I will be doing the $2K IUI but have a pretty good chance of it working with a strong sample. Keep in mind that we are not flush with cash- we do alright, but don't have reserves to do this. It will be all out of pocket. Our insurance doesn't cover infertility at all.

Thanks for "listening" my friends. xoxo

I'm sorry the results weren't better. :( What causes the motility problems? Did the Dr. say?

I would try IUI first. That might work, and for only $2,000 I think it would be a good gamble.

How does R feel about the donor sperm?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hobbermittens

I'm sorry the results weren't better. :( What causes the motility problems? Did the Dr. say?

I would try IUI first. That might work, and for only $2,000 I think it would be a good gamble.

How does R feel about the donor sperm?

---

He said there is no telling about motility. Maybe the testes are too hot, but there is not much he can do about that. He said cold packs are not a good idea because there are no studies about how temperature fluctuations affect sperm (ie, getting cold, then hot, then cold again, etc), so he would not use that, just try to keep them as cool as possible. There is no reason, some men are healthy as a horse and have crappy sperm. He said there is nothing more he would do than what he already is as far as vitamins and supplements go.

I just hate to do IUI and it be a waste. It's like every dollar needs to count, ya know? I'd rather put that $2,000 towards the IVF trip in a way, but who knows, maybe there is a remote chance the IUI would work? Of course, I've got to pay like $350 to just go freaking TALK to the RE now.

I'm gonna go on a little tangent here and say that it is absolute BULLS&!T how the American medical system deals with infertility medicine. I pay $500 a month for health insurance and I can't go to an RE. I can go have anything else in the world done or looked at, but not that. If I want infertility coverage, my monthly insurance bill goes up to $1,000, which ain't happening. And now it's "pre-existing" anyway. If I want to do a procedure that takes less time than regular outpatient surgery, I have to pay $25,000.....meanwhile, in the rest of the civilized world, the same procedures cost less than $5,000.

And we are being referred to the local clinic that somehow didn't find time to send over the SA by this morning, which he did 2 weeks ago, so we had to sit and wait an hour for them to fax it over. Seriously. Same ones who would make us pay to come "go over the results" if we wanted them before our follow up with the urologist. There is no way in hell I am going to that place. R didn't like it either when he went in for the SA. He said he felt like cattle.

I am just confused. I think I need to think about it for a while. So, somehow I am supposed to de-stress and NOT think about ttc, and just give up mentally so my cortisol level is down. You know, I kinda wanted to slap that urologist and say, how the bloody hell do you just "relax" about it? I guess his wife had no problem since he is a doctor and they could have done IVF for free as a trade for all of his referrals. And I'm guessing his wife doesn't have to work and raise 2 kids at the same time. I have a crappy attitude right now, sorry gals. I think I need a refreshing weekend. And a margarita or seven!

Hobbs, thanks for your reply, honey. You know I love ya.

Lola, I think I would do IVF with ICSI if I were you.... I know its tough....but you and your hubby have an awesome attitude and with love everything is possible right? Hang in there dear friend...and just take it one day at a time and you know I am always praying for you :)

that is our problem--my husband had poor morph...we tried three iuis that did not work and then got pregnant first time with ivf/icsi! let me know if you have any questions! good luck!!

I'm sorry Lola :( I also think you should go straight to IVF and that clinic is crazy to charge $2k for an IUI! I am sure it has gone up a little since I did one in 2009 (before I found out about my tubes) it was only $500!!! I can't believe they can get away with charging that much!

Anyway I would put my effort into IVF and if that doesn't work then think about donor sperm with IUI. I wouldn't even go the DS route until you have tried IVF on your own. Of course that is assuming you can afford to go that route and it is still in the plans to do so.
:heart:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lola, I'm going to put my two cents in as well. I would go for IVF for sure over IUI. You have a much better success rate.

I can't believe how expensive the health system is over there, it's absolutely crazy!

Thanks ladies for the advice. I am way more inclined to skip the IUI as well. Gosh, at this point, I really think our best bet is to just start stashing away money for a trip to Prague next summer. It could be our honeymoon, really, since we never got to take one. (Then we could call it our honeymoon baby, LOL.) If we do decide to try an IUI, I think I would find a clinic that charges $500 like yours, Michaela. My folks live in Houston- I bet there is a clinic that is reasonable in the big city there.

I don't think R would warm up to the idea of donor sperm unless IVF did not work and a doctor said straight to his face "your sperm will not work, period." He is not against it, but I think, like you said M, he wants to exhaust the other options first.

Quite frankly, I've had the weirdest emotions the past few days- like I don't WANT his messed up sperm. I know that sounds terrible, and I think it is (hopefully) just a temporary reaction. Makes me scared that I will have another abnormal embryo and m/c, or an abnormal child. I guess there is no way to know what caused all of the m/c, but seems that it is a logical explanation to point at the 99% abnormal sperm. In fact, the lab marked in all caps "SEVERE ABNORMAL FORMS" on the report. I think that is what scarred me. I keep seeing "SEVERE ABNORMAL (child)" in my mind. I know that is horrible to say, but I do. I am afraid to get pg naturally, in a way, because of this. I wish we could just do IVF now, but there is that small part of me that says that when we are saving and not ttc so intensely, we could have a natural pregnancy, but I really am not in the mood now, or ever, for any more m/c.

So, I guess we move on to saving money now. I think we can swing $10K in a year without too much hurt.

And yep, Bec, USA is ridiculous with medical costs. US is horrible with the state of public education, too. Our leaders are pretty much rich guys who don't understand how the other 99% live.

Oh Lola, I just got caught up on your posts, and I totally see how you'd feel.

A) How are you supposed to relax and just "forget" about TTC'ing??? Sometimes men make things sound so easy, when they dont know what its like in our shoes.

B) Totally understand how you feel / worry that his abnormal sperm would make an abnormal child or even more m/c and heartache. :hugs:

C) I would def. go with IVF. IUI is too high and has a very low success rate.

D) I also agree that it's ridicilious how much we pay in health care and how little we get out of it. It wasn't fertilty treatments, but a few years I had an issue with my eye that was very rare and required being at a certain hospital and doctor but they weren't on my plan. Needless to say, it took years to pay off the few K required to essentially save my life, when the whole idea of no coverage/or very little coverage if the hospital does not participate with the insuracne is such bullshit!! Then, when we had Quinten 4 years, I just had to pay 400 co-pay but my insurcane got much expensive with second son (we pay like $450 a month for the family) and I had mad hospital bills coming in that I'm still paying for DS2, even though i pay more now per month than I did for DS1. It's crazy how broken the system really is.

Sorry for the rant....but I can feel and understand your frustration. I just hope it gets better.

Hugs Lola. I'm SO sorry the appt didn't bring better news, and even more sorry that you're struggling w/the "abnormal" label... that doesn't help anything :( I understand though as I'd likely be obsessing over it too.

I think the honeymoon baby is the way to go though, IVF over IUI for sure.

*sigh*

I wish life was easier sometimes.

Hey girls, thanks for the support! I am starting to psyche myself up for the IVF. I'm about to open a new savings account for it, and the honeymoon. We only need to save $10K which isn't that bad. And hey, I'm going to assume we won't get pg in the meantime, which will hopefully lower my stress level and maybe we'll have one of those lucky months before we go and then I can buy myself a fun little used mommy convertible with the savings! LOL Kidding, it would be maternity leave money. Either way, it's a win-win.

Prague Fertility Clinic has daily embryo monitoring to watch for normal cell division as well as PICSI (think I talked about this earlier) so I feel better about our chances of weeding out the bad sperm and finding that gem in there (or 10 of them). Not super excited about the IVF meds, giving myself daily shots, etc, but that is a small price to pay.

Trying to keep positive about it. I can only control how I react to my life, not what happens, right?

I am excited for you, Lola! I think it will be a fun trip and an exciting experience, with the bonus of a baby (or babies!!). Have fun saving that money!

I am so happy that you guys have a plan!! Maybe while you save and focus on your IVF honeymoon you may just make a baby!!!

Thanks, POP. I hope we actually do get to go do it!!! I am currently worried that my fertility has taken that turn south all of the sudden. I can't imagine everything is ok with having brown spotting all month, the random severe cramps (which have only been twice, but I needed a big time painkiller), and I really don't think I'm ovulating right now. I have zero sign of ovulation, not a hint of line at all on the opk test line at all. I'm CD14 today and usually ovulate now. I think I am just too stressed right now with random life stuff, and this IVF thing isn't helping. I am so worried that my eggs will run out before we get to Prague in a year that I think I've made my eggs run out.

(((hugs))) Lola! I think your eggs are still good in there :) So much can affect our fertility, and you can have normal cycles even after some are anovulatory. Are you doing any supps that are known to alter cycles? Vitex or anything?

You're in the middle of so much right now, it's possible your body isn't sure what's going on. Are you eating well? Getting enough fat? Those things can stop your cycles, too.

I hope you get your normal cycles back soon.

:hugs: Big hugs Lola...I don't think you can "make" your eggs run out....but OMG I understand how you feel. I am starting to feel like me wanting a baby so bad and deciding to start TTC has also run my eggs out. Gotta love the irrational thoughts of a mad TTC woman!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skrimpy

(((hugs))) Lola! I think your eggs are still good in there :) So much can affect our fertility, and you can have normal cycles even after some are anovulatory. Are you doing any supps that are known to alter cycles? Vitex or anything?

You're in the middle of so much right now, it's possible your body isn't sure what's going on. Are you eating well? Getting enough fat? Those things can stop your cycles, too.

I hope you get your normal cycles back soon.

---

I'm taking a prenatal with DHA and fish oil, but just added in (about a week ago) a RJ/BP capsule and an antioxidant multi that DH and I are both taking. I am REALLY hoping you are right and it's just a lifestyle change thing. I am not eating as much fat as I used to, that is one thing. I have started working out a lot and eating way less carbs and fat to lose some of this swaying weight. I was afraid it was inhibiting my fertility having gained weight. I eat healthy fats, though, like avocados and cheese. Plus I take the fish oil, but I don't know if that helps. I do have an unopened bottle of Vitex that I could start at the appropriate time of month. I could also try DHEA again.....

Like I said, really hoping it's a temporary thing, but it does freak me out. Thanks for your reply, Skrimpy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Princess of Pink

:hugs: Big hugs Lola...I don't think you can "make" your eggs run out....but OMG I understand how you feel. I am starting to feel like me wanting a baby so bad and deciding to start TTC has also run my eggs out. Gotta love the irrational thoughts of a mad TTC woman!!

---

Well, because I'm 36 and of course, thanks to the wonderful folks who put out fertility information everywhere, feel like I am about to coast into menopause at any moment. I know that is not true, but it would be just my luck to FINALLY have a solid plan- we got the bad sperm diagnosis and are excited and all systems go with the overseas IVF and have just opened a new savings account for it, and WHAMMO, that is the stage cue for my eggs to run out.

Yeah I have to agree that is my luck too hon! I'm 34 and feel the exact same way about it. My body won't even ovulate now!

Well, I got a positive opk just around noon today, so seems that I will actually ovulate (well, hopefully), but it was just later than usual. I have no cm at all, though, which leads me to think I have low estrogen from something, probably stress, this month. POP, why don't we make a pact to try to be chill and nonchalant about ttc for a while and see if it helps us? Maybe the stress of just ttc and temping and all is doing the same to you? But you did have ewcm this month, that is good.

Use some preseed, Lola! It will help!

I did! I've been putting it up there by the cervix with the applicator like you are supposed to also.

Yay Lola!! Good luck! I had a temp rise this morning...not huge but a definite rise!! I don't think I O'ed yesterday though....I think I O'ed during the evening before as I had my typical stabbing pain I get when I O and yesterday by 10am my cervix was back super low and creamy CM....so maybe I did O. Got a 2 day cut off though lol

Ugh, the 2ww is just pure torture when you have been ttc this long. Mostly because I'm not sure how to feel anymore....do I remain hopeful and waive that glass of wine and not go water skiing and whatnot or do I just go on acting like I did when I was unknowingly pregnant with my girls....just go on about life and not think about it. Every time I get a "symptom," my mind starts playing tricks on me. Like, oh, you smelled that dog shit from 20 feet away? Pregnant! Or, nipple is slightly tingling....pregnant!?!? This meal makes me want to barf a little and not because it's not delicious....pregnant?

On a good note, I did start taking my progesterone again and it has made my uterus feel much calmer, if that makes any sense. I slept like a dead bear the other day, too. Best sleep I've had in months. But still going to go in and see what the doc thinks about this brown spotting business from the last two months. My girlfriend told me some horror story over margaritas the other night, so now I'm a bit alarmed. I haven't had it for a while now, which is good.

Hey, the tingly nips have always been a sure sign for me. I hope this is it for you Lola.

Thanks, Atomic! I wish it would be! My nips tend to do that anyway in the 2ww so I doubt it....my biggest tell-tale symptom has always been feeling dizzy and faint, isn't that odd?

Lola, big fingers crossed for you!! I still hope you can either concieve naturally or do IVF...I think it would be so awesome for you and your supportive man to have a baby together!

Try not to listen to horror stories! They just freak you out for probably no reason. I hope your dr. can shed some light on the spotting for you.

Thanks, gals. I hope everything is ok also.....I just hope whatever is wrong, if there is something wrong, is temporary and fixable. I just have this overwhelming irritation that we can't get pregnant naturally lately. It's really hard when it's not you, either. I keep having this recurrent thought that I could just order some sperm from a donor that looks like my DH and have an insemination on my lunch hour on O day and call it a wrap. Isn't that horrible???? I am just dreading the IVF thing....paying for it (even if it's less than in the US), the shots and meds and all, and just the whole thing. I am getting a little chicken about it lately. I feel like it would all rest on that one cycle, like it then or nothing, since we obviously can't do lots of cycles. Heck, we'll need a year to save up for that one, and it's less than half the cost of the US.

How much is donor sperm and artificial insemination? Is your DH at all into that option these days? I know he had rejected the idea initially, but maybe he would be more receptive to it now. It wouldn't be his bio child, but it would be HIS child, and you could find a donor that looks like him. Didn't someone else suggest mixing your DH's sperm with donor sperm, and then you would never really know if it was his bio baby or not? It seems like that would be a nice option too. Cheaper than IVF, and no traveling!

Honestly, Hobbs, I would love it if he would just say OK, let's do it. I worry that my eggs will go bad or my uterus become a crap environment before next July/August (which is when we would go to Prague) for one. The whole IUI/donor sperm shooting match would maybe be $2,000 at most, which would be way more affordable. The other thing is, with his sperm being 99% abnormal, I kinda don't even WANT his in there, kwim? I know, this is all super horrible crap I'm saying here, but I am so afraid of having more m/c because of bad sperm. And I don't even know for sure that it was the cause, but I just have this bad feeling that it was.

I know couples that use DS have to for many reasons, and this is definitely one of them. I know we should investigate IVF first, but I'm so afraid of there being no good sperm when we get there ready to go and having to use Czech donor sperm on the fly anyway. I mean, if you look up 1% morphology, the odds are BAD. And my DH has a low count to boot. This is how the urologist put it: if you have a count of 100 million but only 1% morphology, there are still like 1 million normal sperm present. If you only have 19million, there are a heck of a lot less and your odds of natural pregnancy go WAY down to like nothing. I guess we could try IUI with his sperm, but there will be so few, and they'd have to "wash" all the crappy ones out, but there would still be many that were abnormal that would probably make it through the wash.

I don't know, I would never say it to his face, but it's almost like I'm afraid for his sperm to get me pregnant whichever way we do it.

Well, can you really push the idea of donor sperm? Or is he really opposed? What are his reasons?

You have a GREAT chance at IVF, after all, he has got you pregnant before remember ;) x x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TTC5

You have a GREAT chance at IVF, after all, he has got you pregnant before remember ;) x x

---

True, but they were all m/c and most likely abnormal since after testing me for every possible thing that could cause a m/c, nothing was found. I'm just mad that we have to do ivf, I guess. I'm going through a little pissed off phase about it all I think.

The only one time I mentioned DS, he just said he didn't want to think about that option. I've told him that it may need to be an option if we want a child at all, and he said yea, ok, although he wasn't real excited about that. I think it's the same thing a lot of guys feel (and women who need donor eggs, for that matter), that it's just a step away from perfect. But lots of people, including myself, get to the point where they don't care because having a baby is more important, and after all, it's just a couple of microscopic cells that you are using. In my opinion, it's no different than adopting a baby, except that it's half genetically linked to you and your partner, and you get to experience pregnancy and birth....and it's a hell of lot more affordable than adoption.

We'll see....I need to just think about it for a while. I need to talk to R also....I keep feeling mad at him, and I know it's just my disappointment in his sperm, and not his fault, but I can't help it. Part of me thinks it IS his fault, that if he would have taken better care of himself throughout his life (we only met when he was 35), he'd have normal sperm. I think it's a phase....hopefully. But I do wish we could just do the easiest thing. Not that I'm being lazy, but I have SO much on my plate with a demanding job, being the breadwinner, raising my girls, and currently taking care of R still since he had surgery. Easy is the name of my game lately. IVF is certainly not readily attainable or easy at all. I would much rather have a simple IUI with some super sperm that will make a healthy baby and be done with it right now.

Just {hugs} Lola x