To circumsize or not to circumsize????

[grasshopper]

I am not trying to defend male circumcision here but I do think it is difficult to compare it the way it is done in western cultures to female circumcision.
Female circumcision is rarely if ever carried out under western conditions so cannot really be compared to male circumcisions carried out under western conditions. If you were comparing the two done as there are under primitive conditions then most definitely both are horrific but still even then there are MAJOR differences between the two.
Female circumcision is generally carried out in cultures where women are considered inferior to men to prevent them from deriving any pleasure from sexual activities. I would say it is rarely if ever done for reasons of hygiene, to look like mum or because it looks better. Also, often the entire clitoris (and sometimes labia) is removed, not just the clitoral hood (also sometimes the girl's vagina is stitched up as well)...the equivalent to this in a male is removal of the penis not just the foreskin. These girls truly are hacked, with whatever instrument can be used, not a surgical procedure.
Honestly I do have a hard time accepting the reasons for male circumcision as well but female circumcision the way it is normally carried out is truly barbaric.

[Cinss]

What grasshopper said about female circ made me feel sick, i can not believe that that is done to those poor baby girls! I had no idea... that is terrible!!!

[Jamie86]

I am not trying to defend male circumcision here but I do think it is difficult to compare it the way it is done in western cultures to female circumcision.
Female circumcision is rarely if ever carried out under western conditions so cannot really be compared to male circumcisions carried out under western conditions. If you were comparing the two done as there are under primitive conditions then most definitely both are horrific but still even then there are MAJOR differences between the two.
Female circumcision is generally carried out in cultures where women are considered inferior to men to prevent them from deriving any pleasure from sexual activities. I would say it is rarely if ever done for reasons of hygiene, to look like mum or because it looks better. Also, often the entire clitoris (and sometimes labia) is removed, not just the clitoral hood (also sometimes the girl's vagina is stitched up as well)...the equivalent to this in a male is removal of the penis not just the foreskin. These girls truly are hacked, with whatever instrument can be used, not a surgical procedure.
Honestly I do have a hard time accepting the reasons for male circumcision as well but female circumcision the way it is normally carried out is truly barbaric.

I really don't want to start some huge debate but that is not the way female circumcision is "often" performed that is actually the most rare form the majority of female circumcision being the removal of the clitoral hood. At least that is the information I found and was taught when I looked for non biased sources with statistics (of course there are areas where the removal of the clitoral hood is the most prominent but as a whole it is now). And the type that would be performed in the US would definitely be the removal of the clitoral hood and in the same conditions male circumcision is performed in (that is why I was saying I don't quite understand the law because there is a law against castrating a child which is comparable to the most severe form of female circumcision but not against male circumcision so theoretically the law could be the same for girls. Not that I would want it to be at all). I know several women who were circumcised and some of them even chose it later in life, they felt it was very normal in their culture (most were from Africa). It was also found that the very minimal health benefits that were shown for male circumcision were also found for female circumcision (of course I mean the more "mild" types of female genital cutting). Also yes it is normally practiced in cultures where women are not valued but that really just makes me evaluate why we practice routine infant circumcision on our males is it really for some other great reason? Not really in my opinion most people I know say "so he won't get made fun of" or "to look like his Dad." Also yes the way the procedure is carried out in these countries is barbaric but so is the way a c-section is performed or really any other procedure (my doula went on a midwifery mission in south america and they performed c-sections with the door wide open and the room was filthy with lawn chair in it the poor woman terrified out of her mind).

I'm not arguing for FGC I'm just saying I think our male children deserve the same respect we give our female children. If we performed any procedure routinely on little girl babies mainly because "it looks better" there would be an huge uproar (and rightly so).

[grasshopper]

Worst part is they are often not babies, but older girls and can remember it...worse still, it can be the mother or grandmother that do it to them...it is the culture and they want to make sure their daughter is desirable for a future husband. Mostly looking out for their daughters best interests even if it is a screwed up practice.
It is worth looking up what Waris Dirie has to say about it all. She is a model, author & activist for human rights from Somalia and had it done to her.

I do have a hard time reconciling that we will be having our own son circumcised if we have one but I knew even before we started having children that my husband wanted his boys to be circumcised, so it is something I have known will happen. It is not only my decision to make but we will do our research. Ugh...not a decision we will have made lightly.

[xokatietatie]

All three of mine were circumcised in the hospital with no complications.

[grasshopper]

Jaimie86 I agree with you and I am not trying to start a huge debate either. I can only go by what I have read about FGC as I don't know anyone personally who has had it done. I am totally naive to the fact that FGC is carried out in western cultures (I have never heard of it being done in Australia) and if you were comparing male/female circumcisions in western society then you are exactly right. There really wouldn't be a load of difference.

It is hard here in Australia to even admit these days that you are considering or have had your son circumcised...it is no longer routine and it is really a very touchy subject ...I know our son will be in the minority.
I am sure I will feel like a real hypocrite when we have it done and I hope we NEVER have cause to regret the decision.
I can understand why you did not redo the procedure for your 1st son...and why you would not have future sons done either.
I really wish this wasn't an issue for us but my DH has always felt so strongly about this for his sons. Kind of a relief that we have had two daughters so far.

[Jamie86]

Yes I definitely 100% disagree with female circumcision of any kind I will look into what she has to say. I was just saying that they can be comparable. I had my 1st son circumcised because DH wanted it done and now we both regret it and did not circumcise DS2 and will not circumcise any future children. But I do know that the way things are today it's is up to the parents of each child I just really wished it wasn't so widely done.

[grasshopper]

LOL...posted at same time.

[Jamie86]

Grasshopper, I understand completely about your DH feeling so strongly as that is how my DH was the first time. It's definitely like every other parenting decision you do the best with what you know/have and hope it all works out for the best and that your kids know you did it all with nothing but love. I live in an area where we are "freaks" for not circumcising but after my research I just felt so strongly about it. Which is why I might have come off as a little abrasive and I'm sorry if so. Although I feel strongly about it I never think less of parents for making the decision to do so as I know most of us are doing our best.

[atomic sagebrush]

i know this is an old thread but wanted to chime in here - my oldest son is circ and the others aren't. We just explained it as a difference like having brown or blue eyes and it was NEVER an issue whatsoever. So for anyone who is nervous because they don't want to circ, but are concerned their sons won't look like their father or older brothers, that's a strategy that worked very well for us.