Just finnishd 1st cycle at ********

[nuthinbutpink]

Hi there. You are a Dream Member. There is a Member HT forum.

So, you had 20 fertilize? Am I reading that right? Embryo development seemed to slow for you after fertilization which could indicate that quality was poor but since you did no pretesting, they took a wild a$$ guess(as we say here in the South) as to what your protocol should be and they may have quessed wrong.

How many days did you stim? What was your e2 at ER? Did you do a day 3 biopsy? Day 5?

I am starting to see a trend with International clinics in regards to menopur only cyclyes. In the US, it is believed that too much LH can really hurt your quality. I see menopur only cycles almost exclusively at International clinics like Genesis and now ********.

Meds can make or break your cycle. The wrong med choice and your quality may suffer. So, there are lots of things that you can change for a second attempt- that is the good news- that may help yield a better result.

With what I have learned on here, anytime we see someone get 20+ eggs from ER and not end up with a BFP, something is wrong. Something with immunity issues, something with insulin and you may need metformin or a low-carb diet or a protocol change. It should work for you if you can produce 20+ eggs.

[Mollo]

Thank you nuthinbutpink for a long a helpful answer from you. I really apresiate it!

I got an answer from the doctor today about the miscarriage, and he says it was bad luck. Hard to know the reason. Off course it is! But he doesnt think I need to take some more tests either. I think that is a bit weard. Next time it is probably our last chance, and I really really want this to work! I an crying when I am writing this. We are soo deavastadet after miscarriage now, and we also knew it was a girl.

The doctor seemes to think good about me, and that it is nothing wrong with me. He says I doesnt need any tests, only aCGH???

E2, what is that?

I know nothing about aCGH, but have understood that the price is for 3 embryos, and 300 euro extra per extra embryo. That could be really expencive if we ate lucky next time!!!!

What are the chances of 5 probe(testing day 5) freeze and ET one month later, versus normal FISH with testing on day 3 and ET on day 5?? Anyone know?

I was on a short protocol, 10 days of menopur injection 225iu a day.
Received 25 eggs, 24 mature and 21 fertilized. 12 maked it to day 3 (I think), and only 6 good enough for pgd at day 3. Out of this 6, 3 were abnormal.

What tests do you think I would need? Off course I could eat low carb!!! Why does this work? Is there some vitamins I should take?

I want to do everything that I can to increase our chances of getting good embryos, soo that we hopefuly can get a helthy baby girl!!!

Thank you guys!!

[Mollo]

Yes, you are definitively a Dream Member. I don't know if you have seen on the other tread but a girl "Wish" who went already once to ******** told that the doctor strongly recommend to use aCGH after a failed cycle.

Regarding the eggs quality, a friend who is not on the forum was on a ling protocol on her last cycle and the quality of her eggs wasn't good. Nevertheless, she is 39 so maybe it is because of her age....

You already contact the doctor? What did he says?

The doctor said bad luck It is hard to know why I miscarried. Off course he said he is sorry and so, but I really feel in my body and mind that I need some answers. We are young and very fertile!! What is happening?? Were can I get this answers?

I understand that aCGH is a good option, but how many embryos is normal to test for here? They operate with a price for 3, does that mean that it is normal to only get 3 enbryos in the end? Why should one of theese be girls? And why should the only one girl make it through thawing? This is really hard to think about

[emmake]

Hi Mollo and Petitpuce, I'm also planning to go either to ******** or to **** in 2014 so I'm glad I found this thread and can follow your HT journey. Mollo, so sorry about your miscarriage but the good news that they got you pregnant there so you can be perfectly successful with your next HT attempt. What is your experience with ********, do you think they are experienced there with PGD? I know their prices are reasonable so ******** is my first choice as well.

[nuthinbutpink]

The doctor said bad luck It is hard to know why I miscarried. Off course he said he is sorry and so, but I really feel in my body and mind that I need some answers. We are young and very fertile!! What is happening?? Were can I get this answers?

I understand that aCGH is a good option, but how many embryos is normal to test for here? They operate with a price for 3, does that mean that it is normal to only get 3 enbryos in the end? Why should one of theese be girls? And why should the only one girl make it through thawing? This is really hard to think about

If you used day 3 FISH, you only tested chromosomes 13, 18 and 21. That still leaves 20 other chromosomes that may have an issue and FISH only looks to see if they exist. It doesn't look at the gene level so even though 18 was there, 18 could have had an issue on one or more of the genes that make up that chromosome which would caused an early loss. Hard to say why but most likely she was abnormal in some way.

You had a pretty big attrition from fertilization to day 3. I would not want to use the same protocol/meds next time because I don't think that is normal.

It IS normal for numbers to decrease from day 3 to day 5 so you will have fewer embryos to biopsy than you would on day 3 but it's generally because they are abnomral and die off naturally.

And about FISH on day 5. You cannot do FISH testing on day 5. FISH is only done on individual cells on day 3 and by day 5 the cells are strating to merge and FISH would show all abnormal results so a more advanced test is needed.

I don't know how much day 5 testing they do nor do I know how many FETs they do. I would ask if they use vitrification to freeze. If they do, it should freeze and thaw well especially if you are freezing a blast.

[lisvna]

Bbp yes you are richt. In europe most clinics use only menopur because its a cheaper substitute for gonalf and there was a studie about how menopur make chances greater to get pregnant. Also it's a more natural product then gonalf. Not every doctor believes that LH can make your egg quality bad so many doctors stay using menopur.

So I think the reason is only money.

Here in Europe it's also uncommon to do mixture of gonalf and menopur.

I'm glad that Savvas prescribed me gonalf this time so I can see if there is a difference. He told me he prefers gonalf btw but it's twice as expensive then menopur......

[Petitepuce]

I am starting to see a trend with International clinics in regards to menopur only cyclyes. In the US, it is believed that too much LH can really hurt your quality. I see menopur only cycles almost exclusively at International clinics like Genesis and now ********.

Meds can make or break your cycle. The wrong med choice and your quality may suffer. So, there are lots of things that you can change for a second attempt- that is the good news- that may help yield a better result.

Hi Nuthinbutpink,

Can you tell me more about the problem of taking only Menopur? What meds they give usually in the USA?

Thanks for your help.
PP

[Mollo]

Hi Nuthinbutpink,

Can you tell me more about the problem of taking only Menopur? What meds they give usually in the USA?

Thanks for your help.

PP

This I also want to know. For what I have been reading I thought tht menopur was good for the quality.

Thank you all!

[Petitepuce]

Bbp yes you are richt. In europe most clinics use only menopur because its a cheaper substitute for gonalf and there was a studie about how menopur make chances greater to get pregnant. Also it's a more natural product then gonalf. Not every doctor believes that LH can make your egg quality bad so many doctors stay using menopur.

So I think the reason is only money.

Here in Europe it's also uncommon to do mixture of gonalf and menopur.

I'm glad that Savvas prescribed me gonalf this time so I can see if there is a difference. He told me he prefers gonalf btw but it's twice as expensive then menopur......

@Livsna: why Dr Savvas prescribe you Gonalf this time? Why he prefers this product?

[Mollo]

If you used day 3 FISH, you only tested chromosomes 13, 18 and 21. That still leaves 20 other chromosomes that may have an issue and FISH only looks to see if they exist. It doesn't look at the gene level so even though 18 was there, 18 could have had an issue on one or more of the genes that make up that chromosome which would caused an early loss. Hard to say why but most likely she was abnormal in some way.

You had a pretty big attrition from fertilization to day 3. I would not want to use the same protocol/meds next time because I don't think that is normal.

It IS normal for numbers to decrease from day 3 to day 5 so you will have fewer embryos to biopsy than you would on day 3 but it's generally because they are abnomral and die off naturally.

And about FISH on day 5. You cannot do FISH testing on day 5. FISH is only done on individual cells on day 3 and by day 5 the cells are strating to merge and FISH would show all abnormal results so a more advanced test is needed.

I don't know how much day 5 testing they do nor do I know how many FETs they do. I would ask if they use vitrification to freeze. If they do, it should freeze and thaw well especially if you are freezing a blast.

Dear nbp!

That is correct, we thought that we wouldnt need to test for more than that because of our age and for the reason that we allways have been very fertile.
I guess we were wrong!

For that reason I think aCGH is a good option, but I am really afraid of getting no girl embryo. aCGH is also much more expensive.

What is e2?

When we are going to do aCCH now, I was told that they test for everything. So I guess that is good. But he also talked about self correction. How does that work here?

When i was in cz he talked about a new protocol with lower dose, but stimming for 3 weeks instead og 10 days. Use 150iu a day instead of 225iu a day.

What do you think about that?