Opinions needed please!

[atomic sagebrush]

The data that claims "progesterone sways pink" is super sketchy. We have seen many, MANY people get short LP on sway diets and go on to have girls, coupled with lots of people who have had girls with short LP and go on to get boys on sway diets that normalize their LP. It simply can't be true because if it were, we would not see these strong trends where short LP are leading to girl conceptions and vice versa.

Just do diet and your progesterone will take care of itself.

We track our results differently than IG does. On IG, if you don't do most of the sway "factors" AND your husband doesn't sway, you are not included in results. We include everyone in results no matter what they did or didn't do. So because of this, we have a lot more variation and can see more clearly the things that are working and that which is not (because if everyone does the exact same 100 things you can't see which of those things work,a nd which are just piggybacking on other tactics). Antihistamines have simply not worked, getting only 60% girls for us. Since our overall success rates for everyone (including those who do not use antihistamine) is about 70%, this shows that antihistamines are not doing anything and may even be hurting your odds of success. I also had a statistician do a statistical regression and she found that antihistamines were getting the same results with and without using them (and in fact may even be swaying BLUE, although I'm not totally sure I believe that just yet) And since antihistamines really do cut odds of conception as well it's something we have moved away from...and yet our results are higher than ever!

I wouldn't add anything more into your sway! Your sway is quite strict already, you're going to have quite low chances of conception as it is and I don't think you need to do anything more than what you've already planned.

I know it's super irritating to find out that stuff on IG may not be all it's cracked up to be but that's what I'm here for - to help you understand why the differences are here and then you can decide, based on being fully informed, what you want to include in your sway (and I'll support you no matter what!!) Just let me know any further questions and I'm happy to answer them.

[atomic sagebrush]

Thank you so much! I will look into vitex asap. Does it delay O? B6 delayed it some at first but seemed to sort itself out. Is it believed that higher but around o is girl zone and lower than normal but around o is boy zone? On it it's believed it indicates hormone levels. Higher is more progesterone and lower is more testosterone.

Yes, vitex has delayed and even stopped O and made short LP just like the B6 can and honestly we are really not using that much anymore either as it too was proving not to be at all helpful (it's even WORSE than antihistamine - 55% vs. 70% for hte overall success rate of the site and the statistician thought it was swaying blue)

The theory about progesterone has NO DATA behind it. It's all one guy's theory, he never did one speck of blood work to prove it, and progesterone is supposed to be low prior to O and high afterwards FOR EVERYONE. This is how the female body works and when people try to raise their progesterone levels at the wrong time of the month they will stop ovulating!!

[atomic sagebrush]

Bump for atomic

Yes please just give me a day or three before bumping. I go from oldest posts to newest and sometimes when a post looks like it may be long (such as going over a sway) I'll skip it on a busy day so it will be my first question answered on the next day. So since I go oldest to newest, bumping just sends the post back to the top of my "new" posts and makes it take even longer! Plus, since I sometimes skip longer posts so I can answer them with fresh eyes, this will mean I am all discombobulated, LOL. I really do answer all posts! The only time to bump is when it's been like a week because sometimes I do click a post to reply and then the window closes on me and I think I replied when I didn't.

[atomic sagebrush]

No I haven't heard of these swaying! I can't stand coffee (love the smell tho) but how do folate and fiber sway? Is there anything to increased dairy?

Coffee is here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...s-swaying.html

Folate and fiber are here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc...tml#post959026 and an additional fiber essay is here: Fantastic Fiber for LE Diet!

I personally do not believe increased dairy sways pink. It doesn't make sense (75% of all adult women are lactose intolerant and many cultures eat very little dairy) and it's been debunked in the largest study ever done on preconception diet and gender conceived. if you really believe in cal-mag for swaying, that's totally up to you, just be sure you get them from supplements and NOT dairy since dairy is loaded with gobs of other nutrients. Since nutrients sway blue, drinking milk by the gallon can easily lead people to have boys! Also, if you want to take cal-mag be sure you're getting the kind without added Vit. D as Vit. D may sway blue.

I have an essay that may help explain some of the concerns we have with the mineral diets here: https://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc...s-edition.html

[RaisingGentlemen3]

There are some things in this that I don't agree with - it is ALWAYS your sway your way so I'll go over them but please of course do what YOU feel is best.

1)What's your BMI, how much weight do you plan to lose?

2)I am not a fan of B6. We found it to sway strongly blue and it also messes up your cycle hugely, delaying O and shortening LP for many people. I got my 4th boy taking it on IG's suggestion!

3)I prefer you do RepHresh every 3 days as that's how it's meant to be used. Really hasn't worked for us anyway so that should be among the first things to drop if BFN.

4)How are you planning on determining ovulation?? What are you going to do if you don't O on CD 15 or 16?? Especially given that you're coming off BCP, it may be a challenge to time that

5)Abstain hasn't worked for us, fine to start off using it but do drop it over time (preferably before adding attempts)

6)Antihistamines haven't worked for us, I would probably skip those since you're coming off the BCP which can dry up EWCM anyway.

7)Above all else, one attempt in the fertile window has been best for us. So I like to see you guys ditch things like RepH, antihistamine, abstain, timing, Sylk, before you add attempts. Don't keep all those things and then add attempts to conceive because we got a lot of boys with that approach.

8)Can you define "low calorie intake"??

9)I am not a fan of shallow release. We have found it to really, really cut odds of conception hugely and it's never been proven to help sway anyway. i think given all the other things you're doing to sway, you're going to have an extremely low chance of conceiving and I'd personally give the shallow release a pass given all that other stuff.

10) I am totally on board with u guys doing an attempt once a week like you're describing (that's a method that we have used from time to time for people just starting TTC) I would actually suggest taking it a little further in case you do have a delayed O coming off the BCP - I'd start the e7d not on CD 8 or whenever (very low to zero chance of conception) and instead start it CD 10-12 (hubby would have to start abstain different day) that way if you ovulate early - more like CD 14, you'll be covered and then if you O later, say on CD 17, you'll still be covered. UP to you though!

Thank you so much atomic! I will definitely drop antihistamines and b6. After what you wrote and talking with a trusted friend from ig, I won't be taking vitex either. Love all the info!
1) I don't know my bmi but I am 5'4" and currently 130 lbs. I have lost 13 lbs since starting the le/ig diet back in March (slowly integrated the diet elements into my daily routine). I would personally like to get down to 125 but not bc of swaying, I just like that weight for me.
4) I am temping and will be using opks as well when it's time
9)low cal to me has been 12-1400 calories.
10) I meant on cd8 we would bd but not to ttc, just to help dh bc he can't abstain more than 7-8 days. If we std on cd 7 in the am would 7 days be CD 14 in the evening or cd15? I was thinking with one attempt every week I could possibly catch o even if it ended up being a cut off. But if I O 5 or more days after an attempt I understand I could miss it and I am fine with that as I am not sure when I will O anyways.

[atomic sagebrush]

1)Ok. That means your BMI is 22.3 and you can safely lose down to BMI 21 (so a few more pounds) here's a BMI calculator to use as you lose weight https://www.google.com/search?q=bmi+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

4)Ok. As long as you're doing the OPK you can have a good try coming off the BCP!

9)I prefer everyone on 1500-1800 cals. Going too low on calorie intake is the #1 thing people do "wrong" because you can delay or even stop ovulation and will have to basically eat a blue sway diet to get things going again!

10) CD 14 or 15, either would be fine. There is no magic to the amount of days, just as long as you're going about 7 days between BD rounds. Yes exactly that's the benefit of the e7d - it will one hundred percent for sure be one attempt and you will still have a fair chance at lucking your way into a well-timed attempt for conception.

Timing doesn't sway. Modern science using much better technology and information than Dr. Shettles has proven 50-50 boys and girls conceived every cycle day so if that's a concern I'd let that go. https://genderdreaming.com/forum/gen...le-timing.html

Of course all this is largely irrelevant if you're using the OPK because you can simply use them to know when to do the one attempt! no need to BD every 7 days if using OPK because you'll know when the surge occurs

[RaisingGentlemen3]

Since I have been doing 12-1400 calories for 2 or 3 weeks do you think my body could be used to it and ovulate relatively normally (except bcp probably throws it off)? I really want to get as close to 125 before we conceive as I can although I am already 2 lbs lighter than when I got pregnant the 2nd time, 5 lbs lighter than the 1st time and 9 lbs lighter than the 3rd time as I weigh 129 now. I only seem to be losing 1/2 lb a week. What do you think?
Since we are dtd e7d it makes me worried we will miss o if I O 4 or days after one attempt. We are ttc every Sunday afternoon and so what should I do if I O on Fri or Saturday? Just forget about it and move on to the next month? I know the first cycle after bcp sways very heavily pink do I'm afraid to miss it but I don't want boy zone abstain.

[RaisingGentlemen3]

I want to clarify, I was doing about 2000-2100 cals a dat before diet. I cut back to roughly 1600 a day then down again to 1200ish a day sometimes 1400. I did it slowly over time so I could manage it and not go bonkers.
Also could you help me understand how e4d sways girl? Wouldn't that put dh in boy zone sperm-count-wise? And isn't there a significant chance sperm could still be alive to fertilize the egg at 4days? I've seen so many in the July 2ww doing e4d and I just don't get it. I'm asking to understand it mostly bc I'm afraid that I will O 3-5 days after an attempt and be tempted to try e4d then but I want enough info to make a good decision. You know?

[atomic sagebrush]

Since I have been doing 12-1400 calories for 2 or 3 weeks do you think my body could be used to it and ovulate relatively normally (except bcp probably throws it off)? I really want to get as close to 125 before we conceive as I can although I am already 2 lbs lighter than when I got pregnant the 2nd time, 5 lbs lighter than the 1st time and 9 lbs lighter than the 3rd time as I weigh 129 now. I only seem to be losing 1/2 lb a week. What do you think?
Since we are dtd e7d it makes me worried we will miss o if I O 4 or days after one attempt. We are ttc every Sunday afternoon and so what should I do if I O on Fri or Saturday? Just forget about it and move on to the next month? I know the first cycle after bcp sways very heavily pink do I'm afraid to miss it but I don't want boy zone abstain.

No unfortunately too low cals seems to be cumulative at least in the time frame we are talking about...meaning that while yes maybe eventually a person's metabolism could adjust and there are women walking around out there who really eat that small an amount, it took them YEARS to adjust to that (or else they have always eaten that since childhood). But in the shorter time frame we run a sway in, 2-3 weeks is NOT enough for your metabolism to adjust and I fear you'll stop ovluating (or make it take a really long time to come back on the BCP) within a month or two if you don't bump up your cals somewhat. 1200-1400 calories has been a disaster for the vast majority of people who tried it, particularly if they were eating significantly more than that to start with.

1/2 lb a week loss is a very nice pace. That is good news because you will be less likely to stop O at that pace of weight loss. I still strongly urge you to eat more, though.

Yes that's indeed the risk of e7d. It's just the chance you take doing it that way. But if you're doing OPK then you have the option of deciding to add an attempt in. Let's say u BD on Sun and then you're due to O according to OPK on Saturday. That's still 6 days out and I'd have u do an attempt in that scenario!

Re "boy zone abstain" we have not found the frequency patterns to really make much (if any) difference. Daily release and abstain have done nothing for pink - getting substantially lower than the overall success rate of the site (they're up a bit right now because we've had a strong couple years thanks to getting diet and exercise dialed in better, but for years and years prior they've been coming in in the 50% range) More about this in next post

[atomic sagebrush]

I want to clarify, I was doing about 2000-2100 cals a dat before diet. I cut back to roughly 1600 a day then down again to 1200ish a day sometimes 1400. I did it slowly over time so I could manage it and not go bonkers.
Also could you help me understand how e4d sways girl? Wouldn't that put dh in boy zone sperm-count-wise? And isn't there a significant chance sperm could still be alive to fertilize the egg at 4days? I've seen so many in the July 2ww doing e4d and I just don't get it. I'm asking to understand it mostly bc I'm afraid that I will O 3-5 days after an attempt and be tempted to try e4d then but I want enough info to make a good decision. You know?

e4d -

What we have found over time is that neither abstain nor FR were working. We had a very illuminating experience early on where we assumed that what we should do is do all the old school sway tactics...timing, frequency, pH, herbal supps, things to dry up CM, etc...and then since that makes it very hard to conceive, we added attempts to get pregnant. What we found was that NONE of the old school sway tactics worked!! They all had TERRIBLE results. And the only thing that DID work was having one attempt in the fertile window. No one had ever suspected that number of attempts might possibly sway, but the results seemed to show that, and when we started emphasizing one attempt, our results went up and stayed up ever since. Now, over the course of time, the results with one attempt have ~appeared~ to drop but that is because so many people have heard of it being the "magic" girl method that a lot of people will do that even if they haven't done diet, exercise, etc and this makes the success rate drop. But I still strongly believe in one attempt because of our earlier experience with it (when it was literally the only thing that seemed to be working aside from diet and exercise!!)

Now, as for e4d, it's meant to be a method to boost chances of conception. I prefer that no one (well, very few people) start off with e4d. I like most people to start off doing one attempt + whatever sway tactics you want (and if u want to try with abstain/daily release at first, that's cool, just drop them before adding attempts.) Then we have a method where we have hubby do regular release every 2-4 days (and yes, this is technically a blue-friendly pattern, but remember, our results showed that release patterns/frequency was not working anyway!!) WITH one attempt for better chance of conception than abstain/FR + one attempt. But even that was not enough for people to get pregnant.

Part of the problem with one attempt is that it's VERY easy to ovulate early or late on LE Diet and additionally it's also very VERY easy to screw it up with the OPK (they are bargain basement technology, to be honest) and so by putting all our eggs in one basket, literally LOL and having only one attempt it is really very easy to miss the egg. So after people have tried with one attempt and tried with one attempt + reg. release every 2-4 days for hubby AND have dropped all other sway attempts that have gotten disappointing results, then and only then do I have people go to e4d. (some people go to e4d sooner than that because they need higher odds of conception sooner) e4d is NOT my preferred method for everyone to start with (some people, yes, but not most). It's something that people who have been trying for a while will switch to.

The reason why every 4 days works, though, is that it is STILL one attempt. I know it seems like it isn't, but it is. We have extensive experience with Shettles timing (most of us have at least one Shettles opposite, LOL) and we found that 4 day cutoffs were practically zero chances of conception with swaying, and even 3 day cutoffs with swaying were a longshot (the reason I mention "with swaying" is because while it is possible to get pregnant with 3/4 day cutoffs - although slim odds - it is still possible, but with swaying, it makes it much harder to conceive that way and thus the rules/results are different for swayers than for the average person who tries for a cutoff).

So BD every 4 days means that you'll end up with attempts O-5 and O-2 OR O-4 and O-1 OR O-3 a and O Day (using the Monday/Thursday pattern of e4d) Since swaying cuts odds of conceiving with O-5 and O-4 to nil (even without swaying, these have been proven to be exceedingly unlikely days to conceive and most people who think they did conceive these days actually ovualted early) thus yielding one attempt. Even in the "worst case" scenario of O-3 and O Day it is still functionally one attempt because if there is anything left over from the O-3 attempt, it will fertilize the egg before the O Day shot has a chance to capacitate, and if there isn't (which there likely isn't! because O-3 has been such poor chances of conception for us) then the O DAy shot can capacitate to make it to the egg.

So, given all that, my advice to you is for the first month out, even tho coming off the BCP, I'd stick with either the e7d method (keeping a possible attempt 5-6 days after as an ace in the hole if needed) or one attempt at pos OPK. Not because of the frequency of DH's release but just because I don't have the same level of faith in the e4d vs. the one attempt yet. I really believe in the one attempt because I saw such a clearcut delineation between our success rates before and after one attempt. The e4d I am not yet sold on and even though on paper I believe it to be one attempt, I just am not "there yet" with my faith in it, if that makes sense.