Juggling multiple concerns while trying to sway pink

[atomic sagebrush]

LE Diet does NOT cause autism. I looked into it extensively over the past 6 years and I believe this to be coincidental and not causal. The rates of autism have skyrocketed in recent years and it is NOT because "women aren't taking prenatals for 3 months before conception". NO ONE took prenatals before conception until very very recently and rates of autism were much lower. Honestly, I kind of wonder if prenatals and highly fortified foods might CAUSE autism!

The "prenatals before conception" thing ignores two huge confounding factors - socioeconomic status/good living conditions/lifestyle (gals who take prenatals for 3 months preconception are a different group than those who do not) and women planning pregnancies and avoiding things that are bad for them (women who weren't taking prenatals may not have been planning a pg and may have been exposed to and doing lots of lifestyle related things that may not have been good for a developing baby). It also included the first month of pregnancy but I have everyone take prenatals beginning at BFP and also recommend DHA supps. The study also found NO difference in autism rates with moms who were taking a regular multivitamin preconception - and most multivitamins have very similar nutrient profiles to prenatals so it is almost certaily NOT the nutrients themselves but some other cofactor.

And there is no differentiation between what nutrient was even causing a connection, if any truly were. It may have been one nutrient in isolation and Autism Speaks believes it's folic (and have a good logical case supporting it http://www.autismspeaks.org/science/...rease-autism-r) I have everyone take folic and many people also take supplemental iodine or use iodine supplements (which also help with brain development).

I know tons of women who did everything in their power to avoid autism in their kids and still have autistic kids. MPO is that a lot of the "studies" that try to shift blame onto mothers are coming from vitamin peddlers and/or people who have a vested interest in shifting blame away from environmental toxins back onto the mother.

Another thing to seriously consider is that older parents also have more autism in their kids so postponing TTC may not help as much as you think.

It is your life and your sway and it is as always up to you to decide these things, but ~to me~ it seems a bit of a step in the wrong direction to postpone conception at 41 to try and prevent birth defects when one thing that has been much much more definitively proven to cause issues with babies, is older parental ages.

I cannot say strongly enough how much I would not recommend anything that I felt to be less than safe.

[atomic sagebrush]

I highly doubt the LE diet would cause autism. In the tww the baby has the nutrients it requires in its eggy state (blastocyst or something I could have made tht up lol) and once you find out you're pregnant you eat normally anyway. My ds2 is autistic and non verbal but his brothers are neurotypical and chatting away. I didnt alter my diet for any of them. I have a friend whose husband is autistic and they have had 3 autistic children. It makes me wonder if its sometimes genetic? I dunno, either way I wouldnt worry about the diet increasing autism risks. Just take your folic acid and baby will have the best chance.

The study in question, if you actually read it, found a connection between the folic in prenatals and a genetic inability to process folate effectively from foods. That is a large part of why I have the folic acid at a higher than "normal" dose, because not everyone will know if they have this genetic inabiltiy, and am so insistent that all you guys take it before conception. Folic acid/folate is the only nutrient definitively proven to help a baby's health when taken preconception.

[atomic sagebrush]

yes yes everyone always ask about your concerns, I do have to admit sometimes it hurts my feelings (I have gone to great lengths to always put safety first and the dangerous advice that was being given on many sway sites is largely why I started doing this to begin with.) and appreciate everyone's support!! But I totally understand asking and am happy to explain.

[beingmommy]

Thank you Atomic for this info and for creating such a great site! Again I want to say that I NEVER meant to imply that you would ever suggest anything unsafe. I love how much research you have put into everything!

I do want to add one thing about folic acid that I have learned with my MTHFR mutation. IF you have this mutation, you HAVE to take the methyl form of folic acid AND you should cut out all other supplemental forms. Whole food sources are fine. But with this mutation, regular folic acid cannot be processed and the unprocessed amounts build up in the blood******. High blood serum levels of folic acid can damage tissues. So who knows what that could do to a fetus. When I was pregnant with DS1 I was taking lots of regular folic acid AND eating bread that was fortified in folic acid (synthetic, not a whole food source). I must have had a very high blood serum level of folic acid at that time and I know it hurt him. I understand that no one wants to think they did anything or hear mothers blame themselves. And I don't actually blame myself. I did not know. I thought I was doing the right thing. But I know now it could have hurt him. Several months before conceiving DS2 I was tested for the MTHFR mutation and had my folic acid level tested and it was VERY high. It was high because I had way too much built up in my blood ****** because it wasn't being processed. So I stopped my prenatal with regular folic acid, stopped eating any foods fortified with folic acid, and started taking 5-MTHF (the methyl form of folic acid). During the TTC time and throughout the pregnancy I took 3 mg of 5-MTHF at the advice of our naturopath.

Atomic, you mentioned above that you wondered if prenatals and fortified foods could cause autism. I personally think that this is very possible and that it is linked to the MTHFR mutation and mothers having too much unprocessed folic acid in their blood ******. I am not a doctor but this is what my research has turned up. And it's why I really think anyone TTC should have an MTHFR test because it is very common and not something you can know unless you are tested. 98% of people with autism have an MTHFR mutation so it's linked somehow. And if you have it and want to get pregnant, you really want to make sure you are taking the right kind of folic acid or you could be worsening the problem.

[beingmommy]

And thank you, Atomic, for your thoughts on how long we should postpone. It's hard. I totally understand your point of view. I just can't get away from the fact that so far studies show that a sib born within a year of the last child is 3 times more likely to have autism than one born 3 years after. And one born within 12-23 months 2 times more likely. One theory is that the mother's system is still deficient from the earlier pregnancy and that it takes time to build up the nutrition stores again. It may be that it's related to folic acid levels specifically. Who knows?

One thought I had, though, was to wait 6 more months (I have to anyway because of the C-section - my midwives are very clear on this) and then have my vitamin levels tested and see if I am in good shape then nutrition-wise. If so, I could feel comfortable starting earlier.

I think it really is a hard call. I am conflicted about it.

[atomic sagebrush]

Please don't even worry about it, I always try to keep in mind if I just showed up on a website and some wackadoo was saying this or that I would have a ton of questions.

I would LOVE to have everyone take the folate. But the issue I have is that there are OTHER things, just as common, that plain ol' folic acid can prevent and the folate is super expensive, so it becomes a juggling act of what I can recommend that is going to work for the most people which is why I do recommend just plain folic and not the folate form except for people with MTHFR. I don't think we're "there yet" in terms of definitive data about what all is happening with this stuff whereas we do know 100% that folic acid prevents neural tube defects.

I do totally agree it's well worth getting tested anyone who has had repeat miscarriages, kiddo with autism or is just curious.

Out of curiosity with DS 1 did you take it all through pregnancy or just the first trimester??

[beingmommy]

I definitely agree that regular folic acid is better than nothing. And the 5-MTHF is expensive. And DS1 likely got enough folic acid to prevent neural tube issues because I was taking so much (since I wasn't processing it well I needed more to get some of it to him). I just wonder sometimes if he'd have less struggles if I had known about the 5-MTHF and there hadn't been so much unprocessed stuff in my blood. But of course, it doesn't matter now and can't be changed.

I did take folic acid throughout the pregnancy with him so that could've compounded things, meaning the unprocessed stuff was bombarding him the whole time.

I feel really good about what we did with DS2, though. He's still very young but already does many things differently than DS1 did so we are guessing he is NT. And he has no midline defects. Not sure yet about food allergies and such. Only time will tell on that.

[Hitmebabyonemoretime]

And thank you, Atomic, for your thoughts on how long we should postpone. It's hard. I totally understand your point of view. I just can't get away from the fact that so far studies show that a sib born within a year of the last child is 3 times more likely to have autism than one born 3 years after. And one born within 12-23 months 2 times more likely. One theory is that the mother's system is still deficient from the earlier pregnancy and that it takes time to build up the nutrition stores again. It may be that it's related to folic acid levels specifically. Who knows?

One thought I had, though, was to wait 6 more months (I have to anyway because of the C-section - my midwives are very clear on this) and then have my vitamin levels tested and see if I am in good shape then nutrition-wise. If so, I could feel comfortable starting earlier.

I think it really is a hard call. I am conflicted about it.

Is this any any situation, or just in cases where you already have a child with autism?
Sorry if this and we has presented itself already, I'd I already missed it.

I'm going to be Ttc ASAP, (reality within 1 yr old ds4). You caught my attention.


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[beingmommy]

I think the statistics are for anyone BUT it would be much higher for someone who already has a child with autism. I am mainly concerned because DS1 has autism.

[blueeyedguys]

Beingmommy, if the only thing holding you back is your midwives, I have to tell you that either they misunderstood the research or are being overly cautious. There are studies which show any pregnancy that happens a couple months after a cesarean have no increase in ruptures (because basically everything is healed by that point that is going to). There was, however, one largish study many years ago which showed a decreased risk after 18 months, which sounds like the study your midwives are relying on. Thing is, it's 18 months from birth to birth (so pregnancy after baby is 9 months), not 18 months from birth to pregnancy. Most caregivers ignore that though & tell you not to get pregnant for 18 months.

Semi-related, if you're planning a VBAC, ICAN is a great group & have links to research on their site, www.ican-online.org plus a FB page & (sadly) nearly defunct Yahoo group.

Sorry for kind of going off topic, I get very frustrated by misinformation on this topic & spent a lot of time correcting it over the years (I was the mod of VBAC board for several years)