TTC a Girl LIBRARY

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...ry-o-12-a.html

O+12 Part 1 - The History of O+12

THE HISTORY OF O+12

Once upon a time, in Australia, there lived a woman named Kynzi. She conceived SIX sons in a row, all but the first trying to conceive a daughter using the Shettles method of 2-3 day cutoff for girl, BD right before or at O for boys (the first was just for fun!!) In addition, with sons 4,5, and 6, Kynzi did the French Girl Diet, took calcium supplements, and used vinegar douches. At one of her many ultrasounds, she started chatting with a nurse who told her that in her (the nurse’s) experience, Shettles had a LESS THAN 50-50 success rate. Meaning, not only was Shettles not right, he actually had it backwards.

Kynzi and the nurse did a little investigating. During the 70's and 80's, since Shettles was a highly popular method of gender selection, numerous studies were done to find out if it actually worked. One of these studies, officially named “ A Prospective Study of the Preselection of the Sex of Offspring by timing Intercourse Relative to Ovulation“, commonly referred to as the “New Zealand Study”, actually seemed to prove the opposite of what Shettles claimed, that more girls were conceived the day after ovulation!

The New Zealand Study was published in the journal, Fertility and Sterility in 1984. In that study, couples were instructed to track ovulation and to time intercourse using the Shettles theory.

The couples included in the study (it started off with 185 couples) were instructed by an accredited teacher in the Natural Family Planning method of tracking ovulation using cervical mucus and position, and temperatures, to help pinpoint ovulation. Their urine was also tested for surges of LH (the hormone that triggers ovulation) that would indicate ovulation had occured and these indicators were cross-checked against each other to ensure that the women had actually ovulated when they said they did.

Aspects of the Shettles theory that couples were instructed to try - Abstaining from intercourse all month, until the onset of EWCM or from CD 7. Couples who wanted a son were told to have intercourse on the day after peak CM (indicating ovulation), and couples who wanted a daughter were told to have intercourse 2-3 days before peak CM is anticipated using the previous month’s charts to predict ovulation (I don’t know how long in advance they were charting, but I wish I did!). They were also told to have intercourse only once during the fertile period and abstain until the 5th day after the peak CM.

Aspects of Shettles that couples were NOT instructed to try - Douching, avoiding/encouraging female orgasm, and using a particular position. No other aspects of swaying were used.

Wow, sounds great right? Very interesting! But here’s the problem. Of the 185 couples who started the study, only 33 finished it. The others all dropped out or were disqualified because they broke the rules, by having intercourse too often or at the wrong time, didn‘t get pregnant, or had miscarriages. 33 is NOT a proper sample size to tell us anything reliably. The results of the study did seem to refute Shettles (only 39% conceived their desired gender) and ~seemed~ to show that timing intercourse 3-5 days before ovulation sways blue and 12 hours after ovulation sways pink, but that could have been just sheer luck. A whopping !!!!TWO!!! couples conceived at O+12 - they both got girls but in a sample size of TWO, that data is essentially meaningless. In NO WAY does any of this data prove O+12 works or that Shettles doesn’t, and certainly does not scientifically prove that timing intercourse has anything at all to do with gender ratio.

Also, the self-reported nature of the information is problematic. Couples may say they had intercourse at a certain time but there is no way for us to know this. Determining ovulation by previous charts, as the couples aiming for a cutoff were told to do, is notoriously unreliable, particularly if they had only charted for a month prior to their attempt (that’s why I wish I knew how long they had been charting in advance!) And there are some math errors in the study that are highly concerning and cast doubt on the entire thing.

But, Kynzi was undeterred by the tiny sample size, the self-reported nature of the info, or the math errors. She had actually planned to have her tubes tied because at this point her oldest son was 17 (making her in her late 30’s which as we know sways pink, but I digress) but decided to ride the conception roller coaster one more time to give this new info a try!

After all this Shettles-izing, Kynzi was already expert at charting her cycles and determining ovulation. She decided she would try to emulate the couples in the study and had her husband abstain for her entire cycle (which as we know sways pink, but again, I digress). History does not record if she ate the girl diet, took supplements, or douched, but since she had done so before, I suspect she probably did again.

Then, they attempted their attempt. Attempted, because halfway through DTD a little boy arrived at their door in the grips of the stomach flu and about to throw up (illness sways pink, but I digress yet again). They didn’t even manage to complete the transaction because Kynzi had to get up to take care of him (jump and dump sways pink - there I go again!). The entire family got sick, but after the bug had come and gone, Kynzi somehow, some way, had managed to get pregnant from the very small amount of sperm that had been present in her husband’s pre-ejaculate (low sperm count sways pink ). 9 months later her little girl was born! (the odds of a family having 7 boys in a row is .8%, so it may have just been their "turn" for a girl - ok I‘m done now!)

Obviously, there are a lot of unanswered questions about O+12. People have used it seemingly successfully, but biology indicates that of all the baby girls who have ever been born on the face of the planet, the vast majority of them were conceived with sperm that had been waiting in the cervical crypts prior to ovulation. The design of the female reproductive tract is pretty much tailor-made to keep sperm alive for as long as possible. Sperm live up to 5 days in fertile EWCM while the egg lives at best only 1 day (and usually less, and the older you are, the less time it lives) and EWCM dries up a few hours after ovulation.

Even if we assume that twice as many babies are conceived 12 hours after ovulation (unlikely because most women have an increase in desire PRIOR to ovulation and a drop-off afterwards), statistically it is very, very unlikely that the 3.5 billion women walking around the face of the earth were all conceived from a single shot 12 hours after ovulation.

Part two in this series (the How-to) is found here - http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...How-to-do-O-12

Part three in this series (Advantages and Disadvantages) is found here - http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...ntages-of-O-12

If you would like to know how to combine a cutoff with an O+12, please read this abstaining, frequent release, and mixing cutoff with O+12

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...do-o-12-a.html


O+12 Part 2 - How to do O+12

O+12 is a timing method very popular amongst those trying for a baby girl, where you aim for intercourse about 12 hours after ovulation.

A prospective study of the preselection of the... [Fertil Steril. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI (the ORIGINAL O+12 study)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...t=AbstractPlus (keep in mind that this study was done on women who took Clomid to induce ovulation, and as we all know, Clomid sways pink and timing may have nothing to do with it.)

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...=7930#post7930 (this explains the history of O+12 and explains a little about how it may or may not work)

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...ntages-of-O-12 (this explains the pros and cons of O+12 and a little about why I personally don't think O+12 is the way to go for swaying.)

HOW TO PREPARE FOR O+12

Being able to time ovulation down to the hour is the critical element for a successful O+12. If you're not already tracking your ovulation on Fertility Friends, do so. Ovulation Calendar and Ovulation Chart - Fertility Charting

To do O+12, you will need either a fertility monitor and/or a basal body thermometer and opks (ovulation predictor kits).

You MUST practice three cycles in advance (or more) of your attempt, firstly so you are accustomed to charting your temperature, checking your cervix position, and familiar with the various types of cervical mucus. These are the "Three Primary Fertility Signs" referenced in the excellent book, Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler Welcome to Taking Charge of Your Fertility and they will be the key to pinpointing when you ovulate. Also, it is very helpful to have the information from these first three cycles. If you don't have three cycles to practice, DON'T do O+12, you may end up DTD too soon (in what some believe is "boy timing") or too late (egg will be dead).

In addition to the TPFS, you should also use an ovulation monitor/OPKs, and the data from previous cycles to help you determine when exactly you ovulate. Ovulation pains can help but should not be relied upon.

TPFS #1 - WAKING (Basal Body) TEMPERATURE: Take your temperature first thing in the morning and track the information on Fertility Friend. However, if you are woken up a lot in the night, wake up a different hours every day, drink alcohol from time to time, regularly forget to take your temperature, or even are just really cozy under the covers one day or chilled another, your temps can be screwy. That's why you need to chart, because you MUST observe your temperature trends on a day-to-day basis over a few months, and not just here and there, to truly understand what's going on. Also, be aware that temps don't warn you that you're ABOUT to ovulate, they only warn you AFTER you already have. And, for a very small percentage of women, temping is ineffective (but you can still use CM and position to tell ovulation).

Before ovulation, women's waking temps average between 97 and 97.7. After ovulation, your temps will sharply jump to 97.8 and higher and will stay that way throughout a pregnancy (you can tell if you're pregnant just by your temperature staying high for 18 days after ovulation, and if your temps drop suddenly that is not a good sign even if you have gotten a BFP).

Please note - the temps jumping up indicates that ovulation HAS ALREADY OCCURED. You can't rely on your temp shift to help pinpoint O+12 because by the time the temp goes up, the egg is most likely already dead by that point. That's where OPK's come in (more about that in a minute).

Some people may want to try taking a second temp in the evening to help pinpoint O sooner. This has advantages and disadvantages, because your temps will not be reliable in comparison to your morning temps. Keep the two sets of temps separate and don’t compare the two. They will follow similar but separate patterns and cannot be compared to one another.

TPFS #2 - CERVICAL MUCUS - As you get closer to ovulation you will observe that your cervical mucus begins to get wetter, thinner, and stretchy, like eggwhite. Each cycle will be different, but for all of us, every cycle, the closer we get to ovulation, the more fertile our mucus becomes. Here are links to a couple of amazing, but very graphic sites where you can see actual photos of the female cervix throughout the month and you can see the difference in mucus quality. Cervix Changes During the Menstrual Cycle - The Garden of Fertility http://www.beautifulcervix.com/cervi...tos-of-cervix/

Immediately after estrogen peaks and begins to drop, your progesterone will start to rise (your body assumes with every cycle that you have become pregnant and raises progesterone as a result.) Your cervical fluid will change abruptly. The eggwhite mucus will be replaced by a drier, more creamy CM, and if it was creamy to start with (which is what you WANT to TTC pink), it may even be replaced by a sticky, dry mucus.

The downside of using CM to pinpoint O+12 is that if you are taking supplements, particularly antihistamines, you may not even HAVE any CM to check and you‘ll have to rely on the less-reliable sign of cervical texture to determine O+12. Also, if you are double-ovulating, you may completely miss your first egg because your estrogen will stay high until your second egg has been released. Your first egg may have died by then. Not good if you’re trying for twins.

TPFS #3 - CERVICAL POSITION AND TEXTURE - Throughout your cycle, it is natural for your cervix to move higher and lower in your vagina and to be softer/firmer. (see above links if you want to help envision what these changes look like) Prior to ovulation your cervix will be firm, low, closed, and nonwet, which helps keep any foreign substances from entering the uterus. Around ovulation, your cervix will “SHOW“, that means it will be soft, high, open and wet (thanks to TCOYF for this handy acronym.) in order to allow CM to flow through and pregnancy to occur. This is the least reliable of the primary fertility signs because many things can affect the way your cervix looks and feels. Intercourse, pressure from stool in the rectum, even swelling from checking your cervix too much can all make it harder to judge what is going on. WARNING - Make very sure your hands are scrupulously clean when you check your cervix.

IF you find that your CM and cervical texture do not change simultaneously, go off of the texture of your CM because that is easier to understand and is probably what sways anyway. This is where charting comes in handy because you’ll be able to look back at previous months and understand where in respect to your cycle your cervix/CM seem to change (although again, this COULD happen differently in any given month).

OPKS - These are little test sticks that detect LH (the hormone that makes the egg burst from the ovary)which surges prior to ovulation. You can buy them at many places online, drugstores, and even at the Dollar Store. Start using them about three days before you expect to ovulate and follow the directions on the package to use and read them. WARNING - unlike with pregnancy tests, you do not use FMU (first morning urine) for OPKs. You should test in early afternoon for best results because that’s when the level of LH in your urine is highest.

OVULATION MONITOR - You can use an ovulation monitor to help you determine when you ovulate. This is a post in and of itself so I will just mention it for now. The different brands work in a variety of ways so just go off the directions that come with your monitor.

USING PAST CYCLES TO UNDERSTAND FUTURE CYCLES - IF your cycles are very regular, you can use your past charts to determine when you typically O. This is terribly unreliable, but it can help sometimes when you have very little CM, and it DOES help you learn the ropes of your body - you’ll be able to make the correlation between CM and cervix texture and in retrospect, it will help you understand the pattern that your body seems to follow.

OVULATION PAINS - aka mittelschmerz. Charting and monitoring your past cycles can also help you understand the different types of o pains. You may feel achy and tender before ovulation, followed by a sharp pain, popping, or twinging sensation at ovulation when the egg is released, and then cramping after ovulation as the Fallopian tubes contract to move sperm towards the egg and the egg down to the uterus. O pains will be felt on one side only unless you are ovulating from both ovaries that month. Further complicating matters is the fact that many people have cramps and tenderness in their uterus during ovulation as well. Don’t rely on them, but they can be a helpful secondary sign.

HOW TO DO AN O+12 -

Once you get a positive OPK, that means you will ovulate within 8-48 hours. Research has shown that it’s on average 32 hours after your LH surge (but do not rely on this.) Begin to check your CM and cervix (ovulation pains can help pinpoint O if you feel them but are unreliable.) 12 hours after you ovulate, your cervix will go from soft to hard and your EWCM will change to creamy. That’s O+12! You now have 8 hours to DTD. (Eggs live a maximum of 24 hours and sperm take 4 hours to capacitate before they are capable of fertilization).

Also, you need to lower your husband’s sperm count by either abstaining for a minimum of 7 days and preferably longer - many who choose O+12 have their husbands abstain for the entire cycle - or by doing frequent release (and I mean FREQUENT - every day and preferably twice). You may even want to have him release once the morning of your attempt and DTD again later to further reduce sperm count.

Do NOT DTD again until you’re sure you’re no longer fertile. Use a condom until you have had three high temps on your chart.

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...es-o-12-a.html
O+12 Part 3 Advantages and Disadvantages of O+12

ADVANTAGES OF O+12

It’s easier to keep your pH low for a few hours after your attempt until the egg is either dead or fertilized.

Whatever natural advantage that O+12 may for swaying pink, whether it’s higher progesterone, the dry creamy CM, or whatever.

It makes people feel like they’re doing SOMETHING and are in control of the situation. For some reason, timing feels more tangible to people than diet does when it comes to DTD. Maybe that reduces stress for some people??

For sure beyond a doubt, abstaining DOES sway pink.

It’s easier than diet. (but you should STILL DO DIET.)

You can walk away feeling like you did everything you could.

DISADVANTAGES OF O+12

It’s too hard - The one thing that both Shettles and O+12 agree on is that DTD right around ovulation sways blue. If you get the timing wrong, you will actually end up swaying BLUE. Or, not get pregnant at all. People tend to give up large parts of swaying (all too often, the parts that actually work) when they get a few BFNs.

It’s too stressful - Remember the whole, stress sways blue idea? O+12 is STRESSFUL for people. And it’s the obsessive, tackling a project sort of stress that raises testosterone and totally sways blue. You may lower your odds of success for something that doesn’t even work.

Sets you up for a huge disappointment - By making you feel in control of something that is inherently out of your control, sometimes it contributes to disappointment.

People cheat because of it - Diet is HARD to stick to, people hate douching and using weird gels, supplements might make you sick. I have seen with my own eyes MANY people give up on things that sway hard like diet, and keep O+12 only to conceive an opposite, after months and months of BFN's.

Husbands HATE it - Abstain for 14 days? Are you kidding me?

Too many unknowns - what is it exactly about O+12 that sways? Is it the thick cervical mucus? Is it hormone levels? Low sperm count? Aren’t these things we can accomplish other ways without all the drawbacks of O+12?

Biologically, does not make any sense - Pinpointing O+12 is entirely based on the utterly unsupported conclusion that everyone's cervix/CM change at the same rate of time and that this rate is spot on 12 hours for every woman on the face of the globe. The facts simply do not support this and reading even a few posts where women are desperately trying to figure it out, verify this. Our cervixes harden and CM dries out at different rates for every person and this can be different every month. Plus, the entire female reproductive tract is tailor-made to keep sperm alive for as long as possible. With this design, it's much more likely that the vast majority of women ever conceived (and men too) were from sperm already in the reproductive tract when ovulation occured.

Can interfere with other sway tactics - some people are skipping jellies and antihistamines in order to monitor their CM to do an O+12. They're trading things that actually sway and do so easily without raising testosterone, chasing after something that has no scientific support (see the point directly above.)

Does not guarantee that both X and Y sperm will be on hand to wait for the egg - With a cutoff or even frequent BD through O, you are guaranteed that both potentially-slower X and potentially-faster Y sperm have had ample time to swim to the crypts and wait for the egg. Maybe, like Shettles believed, X really are slower. They ARE bigger, between 1-2% bigger, and no one really seems to know for certain whether that means they‘re slower or not. Bigger things do tend to move more slowly because of friction (the pressure of the CM against the greater surface of the X sperm) and inertia (being bigger means the X sperm need to expend a little more effort to get moving). And/or, maybe X sperm really do live longer than Y (or at least in a hostile swaying environment, they do). Again, there’s conflicting info on both sides but it seems reasonable to assume that a larger cell would be more resistant to damage than a smaller cell. If Shettles was right even a little, you are putting yourself at a big disadvantage with O+12.

Relies TOTALLY on pH to sway - The main reason why people advocate so much for O+12 is because it’s easier to keep pH down for a few hours than it is for several days after a cutoff. This is making a big assumption that pH really sways in the ways that we think it does. IF pH sways in a different way, perhaps by lowering overall sperm count, than cutoff is better because it will give more time for sperm of both genders to die off in low pH. IF pH sways by killing off more Y sperm than X sperm, again, cutoff will be even better because it will give a longer time for Y sperm to die off. IF pH really DOES sway in the ways that traditional swaying says it does (Y sperm are “frozen” by low pH but they will “wake up” in higher pH) O+12 still isn’t that great because if something goes wrong and your pH goes up even for just a few minutes, then the Y sperm will “wake up” and go on to fertilize the egg.

Once the egg is in the building, pH is probably irrelevant ANYWAY - Once sperm “hear” or “smell” the egg (as in, ovulation has already occurred as is the case with O+12) they immediately swim to the egg where it waits in the Fallopian tubes. They don’t hang around waiting to be affected by lime tampons (although lime tampons may sway for other reasons). Around ovulation, every millimeter of your reproductive tract is churning out lots of alkaline EWCM to help the sperm make it to the egg and has been for several days, so even though the low vaginal pH probably diffuses somewhat into the area around the cervix, it is very unlikely that it has any effect beyond there and certainly NOT in the Fallopian tube where the egg is waiting to be fertilized. Any more than swishing with baking soda and then spitting it out will have any appreciable difference on the pH of your stomach acid. So pH is probably WAY more effective with a cutoff where sperm are hanging around the cervical crypts for days.

It makes it much harder to get pregnant - Particularly for older couples. For women who are over 35 or anyone with declining fertility, their eggs may not even LIVE 12 hours past ovulation, let alone 16 or 20. And abstaining for 14 days may make it impossible for older men (or any men with low sperm count or weak swimmers) to produce healthy sperm. And the longer people go on without getting pregnant, the more likely they are to give up on other aspects of swaying that are actually proven to be effective, like diet.

It may not be safe - People will tell you that O+12 is perfectly safe but the fact is, no one knows. There has been some information online that an old egg causes Down Syndrome, but that is likely a misunderstanding between an “old egg” and an older woman’s egg (which can be at a higher risk of Down Syndrome) and so that connection is probably not true. That having been said, there are many, many birth defects that doctors have no explanation for. Abstaining has been linked to an increased risk of birth defects in older men.

FINAL AND MOST IMPORTANT DISADVANTAGE - There is basically NO reliable scientific evidence that O+12 sways in any way. We are talking about ONE study done over 25 years ago with 33 people in it (of which only TWO even DTD at O+12) that relied on self-reported data and had math errors in it, another study that had ovulation induced by Clomid which sways pink regardless of when you have intercourse, and a lot of anecdotal experience that may or may not even be true or accurate.

I've witnessed with my own two eyes, several swayers who struggled to figure out O +12 for months and posted dozens of posts seeking help to do it, who finally got pg and then suddenly became the biggest O+12 experts out there and began dispensing advice to everyone else. Maybe they did manage to get pg with O+12, or maybe their CM and cervix behaved a little differently that month and they actually DTD closer to O than they thought they did. Maybe they even released two eggs that month. There is no way to know without a scientific study where ovulation is accurately pinpointed to the hour using ultrasound technology and until then, I strongly urge everyone to pass on O+12.

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...ff-o-12-a.html


abstaining, frequent release, and mixing cutoff with O+12

Sorry for the convoluted title but those things really do fit together!!!

We have been having a lot of q's on this topic lately so even though this info is in some other essays, I wanted to get it all into one heading to clarify for people.

Abstaining and frequent release are BD strategies we can use to lower our husband's sperm count. Low sperm count sways pink. Contrary to what you may have read, it's not true that X's live longer than Y's do - they both live the same amount of time and die off at equal rates, but for some reason that we don't really understand, lower sperm numbers seem to sway for a girl somehow (even though there are still roughly equal numbers of both X and Y being ejaculated).

Abstaining - Your husband should abstain (and that means NO "helping himself"!!) for 7-10 days before your attempt. Some people abstain even longer, from AF through their attempt. For some guys, this may lower his sperm count TOO much, so if you're abstaining you may want to go easier on other swaying techniques, like douching, jellies and spermicide, jump and dump, and long cutoffs. Even antihistamine to dry up CM may be too much if your husband has abstained for a long period of time. (you need CM on hand to ensure that some sperm are able to survive to make it to the egg)

You can use JUST abstaining as a sway technique - there is no law that says you have to douche or use Acijel or timing or any of it. Diet + abstain is still a fine sway and may be less stressful and not raise testosterone, so if you tend to be an obsessive-type, it may be something to really consider.

If your husband is over 35 or has fertility issues, you may not want to use the abstain technique because it will really lower his count by a lot, and there has been a slight increase in birth defects in babies from guys who had abstained for a long time.

If something goes wrong (such as, a nocturnal emission) it is possible to have your husband start to release 2 times a day to lower sperm count more quickly and you can still salvage the month. However, this is unreliable so you might want to use some additional sway techniques to ensure that sperm count is low.

Frequent release - DH needs to ejaculate every day for 7-10 days and pref. from AF-your attempt, either through masturbation or DTD with a condom (you may even want to use a spermicidal condom - these have very little spermicide and so you can still get pg after using them, but some may be left behind and the chemicals may help your sway in some way). His testosterone will go up less if he masturbates instead of DTD, but then again most guys prefer DTD and there's something to be said for spicing up boring swaying sex a little!!

Frequent release may be difficult for some guys to manage. Sex every day sounds great but it gets old very quick. If your DH is older, it might be too much for him (esp. if he is taking licorice to lower his testosterone). This is another advantage of DTD on occasion with a condom, it helps make it less monotonous. As I mentioned above, it may be a good idea to DTD with a spermicide condom for a few days prior to your attempt - the spermicide is a very small amount and will not keep you from getting pregnant, but the chemicals may sway pink slightly.

Conversely, if he is young or is just a supersperm producer, frequent release can almost seem to encourage the swimmers!! If you try for frequent release, you CANNOT skip even one day or the sperm have a chance to recover.

If something does go wrong and you end up missing a day, it is possible to have DH start releasing twice to lower sperm count more quickly, so you can still salvage the month. However this is unreliable and so you will also want to use some other swaying techniques to ensure that the sperm count is lowered.

Abstaining with a cutoff - This is just abstaining and then having one attempt 2-3 days prior to ovulation. It's probably best not to go overboard with other swaying techniques because the abstaining will already be swaying by a good bit.

Abstaining with O+12 - Exactly as described, this is abstaining and then having one attempt 12 hours after ovulation.

Frequent release with a cutoff - Frequent release with one attempt 2-3 days before ovulation. Note - you must do frequent release for 7-10 days before your ATTEMPT, not ovulation.

Frequent release with O+12 - DH releases at least once a day for 7-10 days, with one attempt 12 hours after ovulation.

Frequent BD with a cutoff OR through O - Another strategy some people have used as part of a pink sway, is a variation of frequent release. You actually BD every day at least once, from AF-O (and you can't fudge it on this, you have to start at the beginning of AF in order to allow 7-10 days of BD prior to the earliest point you might be fertile) either leading up to a cutoff, or straight through O.

If you do decide to BD through O, you will probably want to use some additional sway techniques like antihistamines, spermicides, and/or jellies to counteract the additional EWCM that many women get around ovulation. Also, frequent BD may raise pH so if low pH is very important to you, you'll want to monitor the situation and adjust your pH using one of the jellies.

Mixing cutoff and O+12 - This is only slightly more complicated and may increase your chances of a BFP. First, abstain from AF-a cutoff attempt 2-3 days before O. Then, have your husband release 2 times a day (without exception! Once a day is not enough!) and then try for a second attempt at O+12. If you decide to go this route, it's better NOT to DTD for release, because it may raise your pH and it also may kill off some sperm that are waiting in the cervical crypts. Release via masturbation only.

The Valley of Frequent Release:

If your husband really CAN'T do either abstinence or frequent release (and some guys just can't manage it) then a great compromise is to have him release as much as possible for a day or two (even up to 3x a day for 2 days in a row), using only the last batch for insemination. You could also combine this strategy with an O+12 or a cutoff, or a BD through O - if you wanted to have more than one attempt, you could have DH release 3x one day before ovulation, using the last batch for insemination, and then again 3x on O day, using only the last batch for insemination. This seems to be a good compromise (but may reduce odds of pg). More info and discussion is found in this thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...-or-abstaining

BEYOND the Valley of Frequent Release:

For men who already do frequent release (some guys have the habit of cleaning the pipes pretty much on a daily basis and are still fathering boys), it is a good idea to have him increase the frequency to 2x a day, and/or release up to 3 times on the day of the attempt, using only the last ejaculation for insemination. This may reduce odds of pregnancy somewhat. More info is in this thread http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...-or-abstaining

A note about "Deanna's Plan" (SMEP) -
Sperm Meets Egg Plan Deanna's Plan (or SMEP, Sperm Meets Egg Plan) is a pattern of BD that is designed to maximize your odds of pregnancy. Some people say Deanna's plan sways pink, but if true, this is very likely because the people who follow Deanna's plan are struggling with fertility (particularly low sperm count) to begin with.

If you are in a big hurry to get pregnant, Deanna's Plan will def. increase your odds. However, if you are a fully fertile couple, it's not going to sway pink for you and may sway blue! You should DEF. consider using other sway techniques, such as antihistamine, douches, jellies, spermicide, to counteract the higher number of sperm that your DH will both produce and that will be deposited in your reproductive tract.

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...over-35-a.html


articles and studies about why abstain is not good for males over 35

We had a thread about this already but I believe it was in the Dream Members section and I wanted to post it where everyone could find it.

I KNOW there was a thread on IG where this was discussed at great length and I can no longer find it. I suspect it may have been deleted.

There are really three separate variables in the equation - abstinence makes worse sperm (fact), older men's sperm is worse to begin with (fact), and older men father more children with birth defects and serious disorders like autism and schizophrenia to begin with (fact).

Net result : abstain + older dads = too risky for my liking.

Please note, there are other things that can damage sperm and sperm DNA besides age, so if your husband has been diagnosed with poor sperm quality to begin with, drinks alcohol/smokes either reg. or special cigarettes, is obese, works around industrial chemicals/electromagnetic fields/nuclear energy, jogs a lot or bikes a lot, is a deep sea diver/anesthetist/radiologist/fighter pilot, takes drugs either recreationally or for medical purposes, or anything else going on that has you concerned about his sperm quality, you may want to consider choosing either FR or compressed FR instead of abstain. All those things are known to damage sperm.

Articles/studies that indicate abstinence makes poor sperm (the articles are actually talking about the studies, so I am posting them because I find the articles easier to understand for the layman, often have quotes and further information from the researchers themselves, and also because so many studies are impossible to find the full text of.)

Abstinence 'reduces sperm strength' - Telegraph
Will Abstaining From Having Sex Help Improve Sperm Count? (also explains why FR makes fewer but better sperm)
UroToday - Extended Abstinence Reduces Sperm Viability in Infertile Men (states very clearly that long abstain is not recommended for any man, even with normal sperm count so when people on IG suggest abstaining longer than 14 days, beware.)
Relationship between the duration of sexual ab... [Fertil Steril. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (this is the abstract on the study itself)
Semen analysis in fertile patients undergoin... [Sao Paulo Med J. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI (abstinence causes reduced sperm motility)
Effect of long abstinen... [Int J Fertil Menopausal Stud. 1994 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI (abstinence means more old sperm - senesence means "old age" aka senile!)
Influence of the abstinence period on human sp... [Fertil Steril. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI (this shows abstains less than a week are ok but very small number of subjects)
Influence of a short or long abstinence period... [Fertil Steril. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI (abstinence may even make sperm count go UP!)

Articles/studies that indicate older men have more genetic damage to sperm and/or lower sperm quality to begin with:

Male Fertility and Age – Does Age Affect Male Fertility
Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm
Relationship between age and semen parameters in ... [Andrologia. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Older Men's Sperm Raise Risk Of Genetic Problems In Offspring
Research links older dads to genetic diseases | UniversityPost
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist

Articles/studies that show the offspring of older dads have more birth defects and other disorders including autism, bipolar, Down Syndrome, schizophrenia, cleft palate, dwarfism, Turner Syndrome, Kleinfelter Syndrome

(Atomic's editorial note - the sample size in some of these studies are HUGE, tens and even hundreds of thousands of subjects over many years and from many different countries - these risks are real and everyone should take them very seriously. It makes me not know whether to laugh or cry that IG tells everyone to do O+12 based on a sample size of 33 (only 2 of whom DTD on O+12) and then belittles the risks of abstaining for older men abstinence=damaged sperm??? - In-Gender.com)

Advancing age has differential effects on DNA damage, chromatin integrity, gene mutations, and aneuploidies in sperm
Male biological clock possibly linked to autism, other disorders : Article : Nature Medicine
Risk of autism spikes for children of older men
Older Fathers, Lower IQ in Kids?
Children of older dads face higher bipolar risk | Mental Wellness Today | Articles
Schizophrenia.com - Schizophrenia Cause, Father's Age
Research links older dads to genetic diseases | UniversityPost
More bad news for the children of older fathers | Psychology Today
Older fathers run higher risk of fetal defects - 28 February 2002 - New Scientist

Paternal Age Effect: How Old is Too Old?: June 2010 (this appears to be an entire BLOG about the risks of older parenthood)

And one final note - older men may have higher odds of conceiving a girl ANYWAY so why would you up your already higher risks doing abstain??

Why Are Older Parents More Likely to Have Daughters? | Psychology Today

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...nces-here.html


Vitex! FAQ and share your experiences here!!!

Vitex agnus-castus aka chasteberry. It's often recommended for pink swayers and for restoring ovulation, but how does it work? How much should we take and when? Is it safe? Let's take a closer look at Vitex!

How does Vitex work??

Once upon a time, vitex was believed to be an anti-aphrodesiac and a natural method of birth control (and may be when taken in high doses for long periods of time.) But now it appears that the opposite is true. When taken sensibly, vitex actually helps people conceive and restores low libido to normal levels.

In Dr. Susan Love's Hormone Book, she advises Vitex as a way to lower prolactin and raise progesterone and estrogen. On the other hand, herbalist Susun Weed claims that vitex can lower estrogen while raising progesterone. It's probable that vitex acts on the endocrine system itself to balance estrogen and progesterone in the proper ratio - all women need both estrogen and progesterone in the proper proportions for fertility. Herbalist David Hoffman says, "Vitex will always enable what is appropriate to occur." Since Vitex lowers prolactin levels, and prolactin in turn affects FSH, progesterone, and estrogen in women, and testosterone and estrogen in men, it is extremely helpful for many different fertility issues. Vitex is known to normalize irregular cycles and is especially good for people with luteal phase defect. It helps to restore ovulation even while breastfeeding. It is also recommended for PMS, breast pain before your period, helps cure menstrual acne, reduces heavy menstrual bleeding, and may even shrink fibroids.

High levels of prolactin cause hypoestrogenism (not enough estrogen) with anovulatory infertility and a decrease or complete ceasing of menstruation - breastfeeding causes prolactin levels to rise, which is why exclusively breastfeeding works as a birth control method. That's why vitex is a good choice for restoring ovulation while breastfeeding. Lowering prolactin will help restore your ovulation.

High prolactin levels can also cause a loss of libido and breast pain, and intercourse may become painful because of vaginal dryness and thinning of the tissues. In people with overly high estrogen levels, vitex may actually help restore the proper balance between estrogen and progesterone, lowering estrogen in favor of progesterone.

Higher progesterone levels are also believed to sway pink, so that is why vitex is used in pink sways.

Corpus luteum insufficiency, where your body doesn't produce enough progesterone in the corpus luteum to sustain a pregancy, is also caused by high prolactin levels and is treated by vitex.

Vitex also raises levels of LH and mildly supresses levels of FSH, making it an excellent choice for older women who are TTC but may have elevated levels of FSH. It also boosts egg quality for people of all ages (even young women can have elevated FSH levels) because FSH affects egg quality.

It sounds great! How do I take it??

Be sure to get a name brand, reliable source of Vitex and follow the directions on the bottle. Unfortunately, there is no standard dosage of pill/tincture - one company may sell 400 mg, another 1000 mg, and of course tinctures are dosed by the drop. It's probably best to start with a lesser dose and see if it works for you. I personally used the Nature's Way Vitex Fruit capsules, 400 mg tablets. I took a tablet in the morning and a tablet at night to restore my ovulation while breastfeeding (see my personal experience below.)

We recommend that most people take Vitex AF-O only. It is not known whether or not vitex is safe to use during pregnancy and there have been issues with people taking it all month and being unable to get pregnant. However, if you are not TTC, you may choose to take it every day (giving your body a break during your period). It may take up to three months to work anyway (some say as long as 18 months for people who's cycles are really out of whack) so it may be something you want to begin months ahead of time when TTC.

Some people have even found that taking Vitex every day for several months prior to TTC, and then stopping all together and TTC the month after discontinuing the Vitex, helped them conceive baby girls. Just be sure to take a pregnancy test every month without fail even if you are CERTAIN you are not pregnant.

You can take 400 a day, 800 a day, 1200 a day, or anywhere in between

Is vitex safe??

People have taken vitex up to 9 years without any known ill effects from it.

There has been some concern that stopping Vitex cold turkey can trigger miscarriage. Whether this is true or not, we have no way to know, only anecdotes. Vitex does affect your hormone levels, we know for certain. So in light of this, it may be best to slowly wean yourself off of Vitex if you get a BFP while you're taking it, either by reducing the number of pills you take per day over the course of two or three weeks (allowing the corpus luteum enough time to begin churning out a lot of progesterone to sustain the pregnancy), or using progesterone cream to replace the effects of the vitex. WARNING - if you begin progesterone cream, you MUST use it every day as directed without fail for the entire first trimester. DO NOT skip a day under any circumstances or you run a very high risk of miscarrying.

Of course, if you take Vitex in the AF-O only pattern, you do not need to worry about this possibility (some people on another website were taking vitex until BFP and I prefer that people do not do this)

There have been conflicting reports of whether vitex is safe to use during pregnancy. One study in mice/rats indicated that it was, another indicated that it wasn't (of course this study used massive doses of vitex, much greater than any of us would ever take.) If you were taking vitex nonstop and are now worried about the fate of your baby while you're weaning yourself off vitex, it is believed that during the first few weeks of pregnancy, the fetus is feeding mostly off its egg sac at that point and not so much from the nutrients in your body (the placenta has not fully developed yet). It is ~probably~ safe to wean yourself off the vitex slowly. My son was exposed to vitex for two weeks when I was pg with him (see below) and thankfully he seems to be developing normally.

WARNING - Do NOT take vitex with Clomid! They may counteract each other because they work to trigger ovulation in different ways.

I am hoping that people share their anecdotal experiences with Vitex below!

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...-ttc-girl.html
USING ANTIHISTAMINES TO HELP TTC A GIRL

(this is also posted in TTC Girl Best Practices but I didn't want anyone to miss it!)

Over the counter antihistamines like Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and Zyrtec (cetirizine) help to dry out all the mucus in your body, including CM. Thicker, stickier CM helps to sway pink. Zyrtec alone is very effective and does not cause drowsiness, but Benadryl will make you groggy. If Zyrtec by itself works to dry up your CM, you may want to forgo using Benadryl because of the grogginess. Antihistamines are a safer option for swaying than Sudafed is.

Use only the medications that have diphenhydramine or cetirizine as their ONLY ingredient. Some medications have other ingredients that actually sway blue. It's fine if you use generics, just as long as they have ONLY one of those two ingredients and nothing else.

Take the standard, maximum dosage as described by the label, starting 5 days before O. If you choose to have intercourse after ovulation (o+12), you may choose to take the antihistamines on O day as well, if you haven't had a cut off earlier. It may make some people uncomfortable to take antihistamines if there's any possibility that a egg may have been fertilized, and so they may choose not to take antihistamines once ovulation has occured. I would personally not take an antihistamine on O day.

Another option is to take antihistamines every day you usually have EWCM, which can be 5-7 days in advance of ovulation. If you tend to make a lot of EWCM, or if you're taking soy isoflavones to help with fertility or some supplements to boost your egg quality like DHEA and believe that they are causing you to make a lot more EWCM than normal, this may be the right choice for you.

Benadryl and Zyrtec are safe to take together because they act on different parts of the body (confirmed to me by two doctors and a pharmacist), so if you are really making a lot of EWCM, you may wish to use them both. Take Zyrtec 4-6 hours (or longer) before your attempt because it takes a little while to get going but then will last for 24 hours. Benadryl should be taken 1-2 hours before attempt and it only lasts for 4-6 hours, so if you don't attempt in that time frame you will need to take it again.

If you're using Clomid, you need to forgo antihistamines all together. Clomid causes your CM to become hostile to sperm (and sways pink for this reason), and using both Clomid and antihistamines together may be too much of a good thing and make it impossible for the sperm to reach the egg. You may want to experiment on the days leading up to ovulation to see how much EWCM you are even producing.

If your husband produces a lot of very thin semen, you may want him to take an antihistamine to thicken it up somewhat. You can give him Sudafed instead if you prefer, which men seem to tolerate better than antihistamine. This will dry up his semen somewhat and also lower its pH. You can read more about Sudafed here: http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...ful-herbs.html


HELPFUL HERBS

Just want to point out that these are the traditional pink sway supps and NOT what atomic suggests.

*Cranberry - 1500-10,000 mg a day. This is based on the ’equal to fresh fruit’ equivalent, not the amount given on the bottle. Try to find a supplement that lists the ‘equal to fresh fruit’ quantity right on the label.http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

Cranberry is a blood thinner and makes some people’s blood clot less easily. If you begin to experience heavy periods or excessive bruising or bleeding, you should cut back on your cranberry intake immediately. Also, if you are taking any other drug that thins the blood, cranberry should be avoided.

Cranberry is not safe during pregnancy, and should not be taken during the 2WW, take only from AF through O. However, during the preliminary 6 week time period, it is ok to take cranberry every day for those 6 weeks if you are certain you will not get pregnant during that time.

*Vitex (chasteberry) - Vitex is taken typically by women who are not ovulating, or are having irregular cycles, but we use it as a part of our sway even IF we have reg. cycles. It may help to sway pink by raising progesterone, so some people with regular cycles have experimented with taking it as part of their sway; however, many have found that it affects a regular cycle in unpredictable ways, making it harder to predict ovulation (this may be how it sways, though, so it may be a good thing if your cycle goes different). Vitex should only be taken from AF-O, even in months you are not TTC; it seems to work best when taken 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Do not take vitex if you are taking Clomid.http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...nces-here.html

*Saw Palmetto - Make sure to buy only the standardized dosage of 320 mg, and take one pill a day, AF through O only, even in months when you are not TTC. Under NO circumstances take SP during pregnancy or the 2WW. We believe that SP lowers testosterone, lowers estrogen, and raises progesterone. Do not take if you are taking Clomid. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...depth-how.html

*Lydia Pinkham - This is taken to raise progesterone and regulate cycles, but it may affect normal cycles in a negative way. Take the dosage as given on the bottle. Do not take with Clomid. Take only AF-O.

*Peppermint Tea - Some people are using peppermint tea as a gentler alternative to Saw Palmetto. It may help to lower testosterone and raise progesterone while stabilizing estrogen, but saw palmetto is believed to be more of a ‘sure thing‘ for lowering testosterone levels. If you choose to use peppermint tea, drink 3 strong cups of tea (made with up to 2 bags per cup) per day. It’s also a nice alternative drink now and then, since regular teas, other herbal teas, and coffee all are traditionally said to sway blue.http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...depth-how.html

Do not drink peppermint tea in this amount during the 2WW or during pregnancy. Of course, a cup of peppermint tea here and there is safe during pregnancy, just not in medicinal amounts.

*Acidophilus - Technically, this isn’t an herb but since they sell it in health food stores, you can find it sold alongside the herbs above. It’s a kind of healthy bacteria that lives in your digestive tract naturally and helps discourage the overgrowth of yeast. Acidophilus can lower pH in some people, and raise it in others, so you must test your pH while taking it to see how it affects you. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

However, even if it doesn’t lower your pH at first, you may want to continue taking it for a few weeks (as long as you are not TTC during that time period) and seeing if your pH normalizes. The TTC girl diet is very yeast-friendly for some people, and douching can also trigger yeast infections. Since it is not a good idea to sway with a yeast infection, taking the acidophilus probably has benefits in controlling yeast regardless of its effect on pH. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...ast-infections

Use the dosage given on the bottle (different brands have different dosages). Acidophilus is the only herb that is safe to take throughout your cycle and even during pregnancy - it will help prevent you from getting yeast infections and may even help prevent infection with Group B strep.

WARNING - Please be sure to take a pregnancy test EVERY month before resuming your AF-O herbs. Even if you have a perfectly normal menstrual cycle, you MUST take a pregnancy test every month, even if AF arrives. It is possible to have a perfectly normal period and be pregnant, even if it has never happened to you before, particularly if you‘re taking supplements that affect your hormone levels. (And yes, this actually happened to atomic sagebrush herself.) Many of these herbs can cause miscarriage and just to be on the safe side, please take that pregnancy test each month before restarting your herbs!!

OTHER USEFUL DRUGS

*Baby Aspirin - Some people find that this acidifies them very effectively. It also has no nutrients in it, so unlike cranberry and Vitamin C, you are getting the benefits of lower pH without the risk of taking in additional nutrients (some believe that a high nutrient intake sways blue).http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

The dosage is one 81 mg pill, sold over-the-counter as low dose aspirin. It is a blood thinner, so if you are taking any other blood thinners, don’t take baby aspirin. Since cranberry and aspirin are both blood thinners, it is not advisable to use them both together, and if you choose to do so, please be very vigilant for signs that your blood is getting overly thin - bruising, heavy menstrual cycles, bleeding for a long time after a cut. If these signs appear, you must cut back gradually on your intake until the symptoms go away - if you don’t, you’re risking potentially fatal bleeding in your stomach and brain.

Low dose baby aspirin is considered safe in the 2WW and may actually help with implantation and maintaining an early pregnancy. However, later in pregnancy it becomes dangerous for many people, so once you’ve become pregnant you should consult with your doctor about when and how he/she wants you to discontinue the baby aspirin.

WARNING - “Baby” aspirin was once given to children decades ago, but doctors have since learned that aspirin is very dangerous for children (even up to college aged teens) to take. Under NO circumstances should you ever give a child under the age of 21 aspirin.

*Sudafed - Take ONLY straight Sudafed (pseudoephedrine), not mixed with any other ingredient. Do NOT take Sudafed PE. Take one 1-3 hours before you have sex, it will help to dry up your CM. It also may help lower pH a little. (You may want to test ahead of time to see how long it takes to dry up your CM and how long the effect lasts). It is not sold over the counter any more in most states because it’s an ingredient in meth. You will have to ask the pharmacist for it - don’t buy more than a box at a time, or they will get suspicious. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

If you're doing a cutoff, you'll need to take the Sudafed for your entire fertile period, until you're certain the egg is either fertilized or dead.

WARNING - Sudafed has been linked to bleeding in the brain and strokes, particularly in younger women who used it at higher doses and/or for long periods of time (in other words, exactly those of us who would be using it for swaying). However, many millions of people have used Sudafed with no ill effects for decades. Also, some people have had trouble with Sudafed making them feel strange or jittery. If you choose not to use Sudafed, antihistamines (below) are a great alternative.

*Antihistamines - Antihistamines give the same benefits for drying up your CM that Sudafed does. Two antihistamines that have worked well for people are Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and Zyrtec (cetiridine). Benadryl may make you very drowsy. Zyrtec is a once-daily pill that can be taken starting 5-7 days before O (if you're doing a cutoff, make sure to take it at least one day BEFORE you DTD, eveery day you have EWCM, then every day afterwards until O day. It is up to you if you take it on O day or if you don't - we are not sure how antihistamine will affect the fertilized egg). USING ANTIHISTAMINES TO HELP TTC A GIRL

For Benadryl, use the dose as given on the box 1-3 hours before having sex (test ahead of time to see how long it takes to dry up your CM and how long it lasts). Repeat as needed - if you're not making EWCM, you don't need to take it. If you're using a cutoff, you should continue taking the antihistamines throughout your fertile window.

You can use both Benadryl and Zyrtec together if you are making a lot of CM. They act on different parts of the body and are safe to be taken at the same time.

There are antihistamines that come mixed with Sudafed (check list of ingredients). But since both antihistamines and Sudafed work extremely well alone for drying up CM, it is probably not necessary to use both.

*Clomid - Only available with a doctor’s prescription - under NO circumstances should you buy Clomid from an online pharmacy, it is not safe. Clomid is given to women who are not ovulating - if you are ovulating, it’s not going to help you anyway - although it can also help lengthen the luteal phase. Clomid seems to sway pink 1-3% (and may sway MORE because some of the women who take Clomid, are more "set" for boys due to PCOS) of the time by creating hostile cervical mucus, but may increase the chances of multiples. It is also less effective in older women because it raises FSH levels, so if you’re not ovulating and you are over the age of 35, you may wish to consult with your doctor about injectible drugs to help restore your ovulation. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...91-clomid.html

SUPPLEMENTS THAT MAY HELP PREVENT MISCARRIAGE

Taking the following supplements may improve egg quality and help prevent miscarriage in those who are TTC both boys and girls. However, remember that the best scientific evidence points to the idea that higher nutrient intake sways blue and use your own judgment.

*Vitamin E - 400 IU - Strengthens the outer shell of the egg and helps with implantation.

*Folic Acid - 800-2000 mcg - Strengthens the inner part of the egg, helps with implantation, and helps prevent birth defects. ALL women of childbearing age should be taking a minimum of 400 mcg at the very least.

*Vitamin B12 - 150 mcg - Helps folic acid to work better. Especially important for vegans to take - most other people get a good amount of B12 from diet alone.

* Zinc - 12-15 mg - Repairs any damage to the egg. DH cannot take zinc for TTC a girl, as it sways blue when taken by DH.

*Baby Aspirin - 81 mg of baby aspirin daily can help with implantation and help maintain a pregnancy. Please consult with your doctor as to how and when he/she wants you to discontinue the aspirin.http://genderdreaming.com/forum/tryi...echniques.html

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...echniques.html


How to lower pH via supps - cran, baby aspirin, aspartame and other techniques!!

Let's take a quick look at these methods of increasing acidity of our CM.

Baby aspirin (low dose aspirin):

In the US, they're orange and chewable but are different in other countries. The large white ones are too high a dose.

PROS-

Lowers pH without adding additional nutrients

Safe to take throughout cycle and into early pg (BUT not into the third trimester)

May help baby to implant in the uterus and is recommended by reproductive endocrinologists for this purpose

May help promote heart health and prevent certain cancers

Affordable and can be found everywhere

1 very tiny pill taken 2-5 times a week as opposed to many larger pills

Has been used for over 100 years and is a "known" quantity

CONS - Can cause bruising, extended bleeding time, heavy AF, increase in severity of ovulation pain, and if this happens, slowly taper off on the dosage. Don't quit it cold turkey, just taper back over 2-3 weeks and then stop. The reason to taper back is because your body starts to produce extra platelets to clot blood when you're taking aspirin, and if you suddenly stop taking it, your blood may clot TOO easily and contribute to heart attack and strokes caused by blood clots in the brain AS CAN CALCIUM (if you're young, you don't have to worry about this so much but if in your late 30's-40's or at any age if you are a smoker, take this risk seriously) Stopping it cold turkey may even cause clots to form in your placenta.

May contribute to excessive bleeding if you have a placental bleed or chemical

In rare circumstances, if you continue taking too high a dose, can even cause bleeding in the brain or stomach that may be fatal. If you're having bruising/bleeding, do not try and tough it out, taper your dosage back right away because there are other techniques to lower pH that are safer.

Can cause ringing in the ears

A common allergen, even if you have never had a reaction to it before, you may have a reaction if you begin to take it every day. This makes life very complicated because there are numerous medications that are similar in chemical composition to aspirin that you will thereafter be unable to take.

How to use - Start by taking 1 70-81 mg 2 times a week and see if you tolerate it. If your pH drops on this dosage, great, and there is no need for you to take any more. If your pH stays high at ovulation and you are tolerating the aspirin well with no bruising, you may SLOWLY increase the dosage by adding one aspirin per week - so take 3 per week, then the next week, 4, then the week after that, 5. Don't take more than 5 a week because virtually everyone under the age of 50 has bruising when they take it every day.

WARNING - a LOT of people on Ingender took BOTH cranberry and baby aspirin. I BEG you not to do this and also to spread the word if you go onto Ingender and you see people who are doing this. Because both cranberry and baby aspirin are blood thinners, taking them both is double-risking side effects.

Also, again, on Ingender, people are told to take Sudafed with baby aspirin. This is VERY risky because Sudafed has been linked with strokes (the kind caused by bleeding in the brain, not blood clots) in young women taking them in maximum dosage for several days in a row while on blood thinners. So basically the exact circumstances people use them for with swaying. Please help me spread the word about this very real danger.

Saw Palmetto is also a blood thinner (less effective than baby aspirin tho) so if you're taking Saw Palmetto, be aware that the side effects of baby aspirin may be stronger than they would be otherwise.

FOR DH - You can give your DH a baby aspirin every day (men tend to tolerate blood thinners much better than women do, which may be partly why they have more heart attacks than women do - thicker blood) OR you can give him cranberry (see below), for the best of both worlds.

Cranberry -

You want a name brand cranberry with the fresh fruit equivalent listed on the label.

PROS - Does lower pH fairly dramatically and quickly

We know that people are conceiving girls while on it

May help lower the risks of bladder infection which you might contract while swaying, esp. if you are doing a lot of invasive sway tactics like douching and checking your cervix a lot. Please note, it's not the acidity that prevents bladder infection, it's because cran has compounds that make the cells of your bladder walls less "sticky" so bacteria cannot stick to them and you pee them out.

CONS - Can cause bruising, extended bleeding time, heavy AF, increase in severity of ovulation pain, and if this happens, slowly taper off on the dosage. (I bruised much worse on cran than I did on baby aspirin and I only took cran for 3 days) Don't quit it cold turkey, just taper back over 2-3 weeks and then stop. The reason to taper back is because your body starts to produce extra platelets to clot blood when you're taking cranberry, and if you suddenly stop taking it, your blood may clot TOO easily and contribute to heart attack and strokes caused by blood clots in the brain AS CAN CALCIUM so you may be risking more than you know (if you're young, you don't have to worry about this so much but if in your late 30's-40's or at any age if you are a smoker, take this risk seriously) Stopping it cold turkey may contribute to clots forming in the placenta.

May contribute to excessive bleeding if you have a placental bleed or chemical

In rare circumstances, if you continue taking too high a dose, can even cause bleeding in the brain or stomach that may be fatal. If you're having bruising/bleeding, do not try and tough it out, taper your dosage back right away because there are other techniques to lower pH that are safer.

Cannot be taken during the 2WW because it may cause miscarriage, which leaves you no option BUT to stop taking it cold turkey which may not be safe for you or your baby(see above)

Adds extra nutrients that if you're following a LE Diet, you do not want.

Causes HORRENDOUS headaches and stomach irritation. Seriously, the headaches were unendurable for me

Has no benefits for pregnancy whatsoever and in fact may cause miscarriage and we do not know how long this risk continues after stopping it. Stopping it cold turkey may even up the risks due to clotting in the placenta

It's expensive

Not widely available and you may have to special order it online

Dosage info is confusing and frustrating, varying dramatically between brands

Has only been widely used for the last two decades so it is not a "known" quantity and may have risks that are as of yet undiscovered

WARNING - a LOT of people on Ingender took BOTH cranberry and baby aspirin. I BEG you not to do this and also to spread the word if you go onto Ingender and you see people who are doing this. Because both cranberry and baby aspirin are blood thinners, taking them both is double-risking side effects.

Also, again, on Ingender, people are told to take Sudafed with cranberry. This is VERY risky because Sudafed has been linked with strokes (the kind caused by bleeding in the brain, not blood clots) in young women taking them in maximum dosage for several days in a row while on blood thinners. So basically the exact circumstances people use them for with swaying. Please help me spread the word about this very real danger.

Saw Palmetto is also a blood thinner (less effective than cran tho) so if you're taking Saw Palmetto, be aware that the side effects of the cran may be stronger than they would be

Atomic's editorial note - Cranberry has everything bad about aspirin and then some, nothing good about aspirin, it is expensive, hard to find, and a pain in the ass to figure out how much you're even supposed to take. All in a hunt after low pH which is not even PROVEN to sway and you can get through other techniques anyway. I urge everyone to pass on the cranberry and use other techniques to lower pH.

HOW TO USE:

Take 1500-10,000 mg fresh fruit equivalent, AF-O only during months when you are TTC (you can take it all month during months you are not TTC). It is best to find pills that are smaller in dosage to begin with, and on the label you should see "fresh fruit equivalent" listed. If it doesn't have "fresh fruit equivalent" do not buy it because it's confusing to figure out how much to take.

I advise you start with the absolute minimum dosage, check your pH as you go, and see how you handle it. Regardless of what you read on IG, it is best to take the smallest dosage that lowers your pH and hopefully does not cause side effects.

If your pH drops on this dosage, great, and there is no need for you to take any more. If your pH stays high at ovulation and you are tolerating the cran well with no bruising, you may SLOWLY increase the dosage by adding a pill a day per week - so as an example (and this will vary depending on the dosages of your pills take 1 per day, then the next week, 2, and see if you're tolerating it ok and you'll be able to monitor pH through O. Then you'd take 2 weeks off (if attempting that month), then once AF comes, resume dosage at 2 a day and see how it goes. If you're tolerating it ok and your pH is stayed high at 2 a day the previous month, then bump up to 3 a day and see how you tolerate that. NEVER take more than 10,000 a day.

FOR DH -

DH actually has a lot more leeway with cran than DW does. He can take it ALL month long without having to worry about starting and stopping it after O, so he does not have to risk the issues with blood clotting issues that DW does. Men also seem to tolerate blood thinners better than women do (which may be partly the reason why men tend to have higher rates of heart attack). Also, nutrients don't seem to sway for men the way they do for women, so him getting some extra nutrition will not hurt much of anything. Start with a small dose, see how his pH does and if he tolerates it ok, and go from there.

Aspartame -

Crystal Light, Equal, diet sodas are all good sources of aspartame. Store brands are fine, you're jsut looking for aspartame in the ingredients

PROS -

Visibly lowers pH

We know that people are using it and getting girls, including people who are not even swaying like Halle Berry, who I have read loves Diet Coke and drinks 8-10 a day!!

Can help us round out our sway diets because they are calorie free

You can use a SAFE AND SANE amount throughout your cycle and even into pg according to the FDA

Will not interact with the blood thinners or the hormonal supps

CONS -

Causes headaches, upset stomach, and weird taste in the mouth for many

Can cause feelings of anxiety and jitteriness for some

Can be somewhat expensive esp. if you are in a country where it is not widely sold

Is not sold in every country and may be difficult to find

Has only been on the market for about 30 years and is not really a "known" quantity - but is more "known" than some of the other things we do for swaying!!!

Some people believe it is not safe for overall health and certainly not during pg (but the FDA DOES in safe/sane amounts) and we have had at least two people on this site who got sick from aspartame and I myself had a bad reaction to Splenda, another artificial sweetener deemed "safe" by the FDA.

WARNING - the amount of aspartame advised by the Ingender site is neither safe nor sane and vastly exceeds the amount that the FDA recommends for pregnant women. DO NOT drink the 66-100 oz that IG recommends or I will come to your house and give you a stern talking to! Please stick with the 2-3 12 oz glasses that the FDA suggests. Also, DO NOT ingest aspartame warm as IG recommends. There is NO reliable scientific evidence that ions sway and beyond no evidence that drinking something warm as opposed to cold can sway gender in any way. However, there is some reliable scientific evidence that heating aspartame may cause it to break down into harmful components that are more dangerous than the aspartame itself. Even keeping Crystal Light at room temp may be dangerous in the summer.

HOW TO USE - Drink 2-3 12 oz beverages containing aspartame a day. Or, drink 2 and have a couple Yoplait Light yogurts, or 2 and use a couple packets of Equal on some berries...whatever floats your boat! Juice sticks are something you can carry in your purse for situations where you're out and about...they are tiny packets that can be mixed with a bottle of water and then drunk. Personally, I like the Ocean Spray cran-flavored juice sticks - they have no juice in them but are vitamin fortified with Vit. C so be aware of that.

FOR DH - DH can also use aspartame and ~may~ wish to drink even more than the 2-3 servings per day. Since he is a) probably larger than we women and b) will not be pg any time soon, he can get away with a little more than we can. 4-5 12 oz. servings for DH.

Other techniques for lowering pH include -

Vitamin C - 500 mg a day of Vitamin C helps to make you acidic and this has been recommended by various other websites. However, scientific evidence indicates that lower nutrient intake sways pink and higher nutrient intake sways blue. Vitamin C also thins cervical mucus by drawing in more fluid to it and it's an antioxidant which is good for overall fertility despite the fact that it acidifies. Vitamin C is not your best option for a pink sway and should be avoided if at all possible (some people are allergic to baby aspirin and cranberry and may choose to use Vit. C instead). 500 mg of Vit. C is considered safe during pregnancy and can be continued throughout your cycle HOWEVER since high dose Vit C. (1000-2000 mcg) can cause miscarriages and preterm birth, if you have experienced unexplained losses, you might want to avoid taking any more than the 100% RDA.

Drying up CM via diet and antihistamine - If you dry up your CM, you will allow the naturally low pH of the vagina to "replace" the higher pH of the EWCM (not really replace, because that low pH is always there, it's just that at ovulation the EWCM raises pH dramatically to allow sperm to survive) http://genderdreaming.com/forum/show...ELP-TTC-A-GIRL

Weight loss - losing only a small amount of weight can drop your pH quickly. Esp. when you're losing weight on a low protein diet. Your body will burn off your fat and muscle for fuel and the byproducts of this process are highly acidic.

Acidophilus and other probiotics - Microorganisms release acidic by-products that can lower pH. It's good to take probiotics when swaying anyway to help prevent yeast infection. http://genderdreaming.com/forum/gend...nfections.html You may find that when you first take probiotics that your pH actually goes UP at first...if this happens to you, it's likely that you had a minor YI that was making you acidic, and the probiotics are counteracting it. Keep taking the probiotic for a few weeks and the good microorganisms will begin churning out acid on their own to replace what the yeast was doing.

Exercise - intense cardio exercise for 60 min a day or more, 6-7 days a week, will help acidify your body The Exercise Enigma - both genders

Lowering pH AFTER having intercourse - you'll prob want to do this anyway, but if you really can't get your pH down, there's always RepHresh or the other jellies. Complete guide to Replens and RepHresh

Sudafed for DH ONLY - People have been having success lowering their DH's pH with Sudafed. I am more tolerant of Sudafed for DH because the link with strokes was in young women and men overall seem to tolerate medications better due to their larger size. That having been said, use sparingly (don't give it to him at max dosage for many days in a row, just use once a day, about an hour before your attempt) and be very very wary if he is taking large doses of cran, prescription blood thinners, or licorice root (LR can cause higher blood pressure which can make one more likely to develop the type of stroke that causes bleeding in the brain like Sudafed does)

[atomic sagebrush]

http://genderdreaming.com/forum/ttc-...-ttc-pink.html


GUIDE TO SUPPLEMENTS FOR TTC PINK

Please note, these are not necessarily the same supps atomic thinks are best for swaying, just a quick overview of some common supps that people take for swaying.

These supplements are designed to accomplish many goals simultaneously. They help to lower pH, reduce testosterone levels, reduce the amount and dry up your cervical mucus, and increase the amount of calcium and magnesium in your CM.

You are looking to find the right supplements for you, to create stickier, drier CM with low pH that is rich in calcium and magnesium.

The amounts of the supplements listed are for safety purposes, regardless of the amount you weigh. More is not better. Do not exceed the amounts given!!!

You should begin to take supplements a minimum of 6 weeks before you begin ttc. It is best to start the 6 week time period during AF, that will enable you to take the AF-O supplements twice, for two weeks at a time during that 6 week period, and then the supps that are safe throughout your cycle for the entire 6 weeks.

Liquid supplements are best absorbed by the body.

SUPPLEMENTS FOR WIFE TO TAKE:

VITAMINS AND MINERALS:

*Folic Acid - THE MOST IMPORTANT SUPPLEMENT OF ALL! Folic acid is taken for the prevention of birth defects and miscarriage. Though it may sway slightly blue as all nutrients probably do, it is vitally important for all women to take, beginning months before they get pregnant.

You must take a minimum of 400 mcg; however, many prenatal vitamins contain 800 mcg. It is considered safe to take in higher quantities of up to 4000 mcg (equal to 4 mg), and if you are predisposed to neural tube defects anywhere in your family history, you should definitely take a higher dosage (after checking with your doctor). If you are taking a very large dose, it is most effective to take smaller dosages several times throughout the day, as excess is excreted in the urine. Some research has suggested that there may be a link between high folic acid intake and growth of some forms of cancer, but since we will only be taking it for a short time period, it is well worth the risk to ensure a healthy child.

Folic acid should be taken throughout the first four months of pregnancy, and after that point, if you are taking very high doses of it, you should wean yourself off of it very slowly. Do not quit taking it cold turkey or cut back drastically, give yourself a couple of months to cut back on the FA by taking less and less each week (you will have to split the pills in order not to cut back too far too fast - do not cut back more than ½ pill in a week‘s time). It is important to wean yourself off and not continue taking it until your baby is born, because some research indicates a link between asthmatic children and very high folic acid intake in the mother during the last weeks of pregnancy.

If you were taking 5 800 mcg tablets, you will have to take 4 tablets and split one of the tablets in half, taking 4 ½ tablets a day. The following week, you would then go ahead and take 4 tablets, until you are down to 400-800 mcg (the amount that will probably be present in your prenatal vitamin). You should continue to take 400-800 mcg in supplement form throughout your pregnancy - do not rely on dietary sources of FA, as it is best absorbed through supplements. And if you have a condition that inhibits the absorption of folic acid, you may want to continue at a higher dose like 1200-1600 mcg throughout your pregnancy. Consult your doctor if you are concerned about such a condition.

*Calcium - 1200 mg a day is safe during pregnancy and can be taken throughout your cycle. Remember, you will be getting at least some additional calcium through your diet - do not exceed 1800 mg of calcium in diet and supps combined, day in and day out for many months. Though your body can probably tolerate more than 1800 mg of calcium, in the long term higher calcium intake may cause kidney stones in some people. It is probably best to aim for more like 1000-1200 mg while pregnant, simply because we don't know. Calcium is best absorbed from foods, so the more you get through your diet, the less calcium supplementation you will need.

If you cannot swallow the large calcium pills, you can chew Tums as a calcium source instead. The chocolate chewy calcium candies are not a good option though, as chocolate contains phytonutrients that may sway blue.

*Vitamin D - You can take 400 IU throughout your cycle to assist with calcium absorption. It is also safe in this amount during pregnancy and may help to prevent preeclampsia. Vitamin D may raise testosterone levels.

*Magnesium - You should not exceed more than 300 mg of Magnesium in diet and supps combined. Be sure to keep a close eye on the amount of magnesium you are consuming in your diet, and then use mag. supplements to make up the difference. Too much magnesium can be dangerous, so err on the side of a little less rather than a little more, if you’re not sure. 300 mg a day is safe to continue during pg, may help to prevent premature labor, and can be taken throughout your cycle.

The first sign that you’re getting too much magnesium is diarrhea. If you develop diarrhea suddenly, cut back on your magnesium supps right away and see if that helps. That is a sign that you may not be able to tolerate as much magnesium as others can, and so you should take less.

You may be able to find calcium and magnesium together in one pill, sometimes with Vit. D included. If you choose to take these, be careful that in trying to get your 1200 mg of calcium, that you are not exceeding the recommendations for magnesium and Vitamin D.

*Vitamin C - 500 mg a day of Vitamin C helps to make you acidic and this has been recommended by various other websites. However, scientific evidence indicates that lower nutrient intake sways pink and higher nutrient intake sways blue. Vitamin C also thins cervical mucus by drawing in more fluid to it and it's an antioxidant which is good for overall fertility despite the fact that it acidifies. Vitamin C is not your best option for a pink sway and should be avoided if at all possible (some people are allergic to baby aspirin and cranberry and may choose to use Vit. C instead). This amount of Vit. C is considered safe during pregnancy and can be continued throughout your cycle.

*Vitamin B6 - Not everyone chooses to take B6 (keeping in mind that all nutrients may sway blue), but it can be helpful for some people with short luteal phases (the period of time between when you ovulate and when AF arrives - it should be minimum 10 days, and better 12-14 days), or who are not ovulating. It may help raise progesterone levels (which some believe sways pink), so some people who have normal luteal phases do take B6. However, the A-Gender company actually has stopped using B6 because they felt they were having too many opposites.

B6 is commonly available in doses of 25, 50, and 100 mg. Don’t take more than 100 mg, and only take the quantity you need to help lengthen your luteal phase. Some people find it helpful to take a smaller amount in the morning and then again at night, as excess is excreted in the urine, so rather than taking one 100 mg pill, it might be more effective to take a 50 mg pill in the morning and then again at night.

B6 has had some side effects in some people - it may delay or move up your ovulation, making it more difficult to use timing in your sway.

Doses up to 100 mg are considered safe during pregnancy and in fact many doctors recommend this dosage of B6 as a remedy for morning sickness. However, if you do choose to stop taking your B6 when you become pregnant, you will need to wean yourself off of it slowly. If you are taking 100 mg, the following week take 80 mg, then 60, 40, 20, and so on (you will have to split the pills to accomplish this). You will probably have at least some amount of B6 in your prenatal vitamin so after weaning yourself to the smaller amount present in your prenatal, you can simply count on your prenatal to continue B6 during your pregnancy.

NOTE - About vitamins and saving money - People have wondered if it is ok to take certain vitamins only AF-O to save money. Some believe that this is ok to do (and in fact some swayers have done so with no ill effects). However, research seems to indicate that it’s never a good idea to quit any vitamin cold turkey. This is your call to make, but be sure that you are taking the folic acid and the B6 throughout your cycle, and don’t stop either of them suddenly.