On & then off & then on the diet again, I need advice when to ttc next...

[WelcomeBaby]

Hello everybody, after 4 failed cycles and a horrific few weeks completely off the diet I’m back with a question! Tbh, I felt into the classic trap of long-term swaying and now I’m unsure how to proceed. Let me give you a timeline of events…

Mid October 2018 - went on a pretty strict LE PCOS diet (had been doing a not so strict version for about 14 months) with lots of exercise. Periods started to come in the afternoon (yay, good sign for pink!). Black chin hairs never grew back after I plucked them in November. Had 2 cold sores in December, caught a cold every 3 weeks, felt pretty rundown. Lost even more weight, BMI went down to 19.5. Ttc’ed in Dec, no pregnancy.
January 20th 2019 - came off the diet directly after (failed) attempt in a tremendous bout of frustration, ate ungodly amounts of chocolate daily, ice cream whenever I wanted and went back to (some) snacking. Went over fat and calories every day for 4 weeks, gave up alcohol and exercise. Gained back 2-3lb. I think I kept the daily Inositol though, can’t remember clearly. Def kept the folic acid and the cinnamon in my coffee. AF came in the afternoon, Feb 3rd after an unusually short luteal phase (10 days?). Probably still the effects of the 3 months of strict swaying.
Mid-February - tried to get back on the diet but struggled badly. Managed to cut back significantly on snacking and sugar, added daily alcohol back into the diet. Couldn’t do the exercise. Did better diet-wise than in the 4 weeks before, though. Didn’t ttc.
March 5th - AF came in the afternoon. Thought I was still “in the pink zone” and that motivated me to get back on the “real” LE PCOS diet + exercise.
March 20th - attempt at pos OPK. Had lost about half of the 2-3lb pounds I had gained back. Caught a bad cold in the days after the attempt and had to stop the exercise. BFN so far and I’m positive I’m not pregnant (accidental shallow release + DH decided to slather on non-sperm friendly lube at the last minute… Also, no sore boobs that I normally have very early on in pregnancy. Guess luteal phase will be more like 13 days again because of the higher fat diet).

So this basically means that in the 12 weeks before the March attempt, I had been on the LE PCOS diet / pink lifestyle for 4 weeks, then completely off for 4, somewhat back on for 2 and really back on for 2. I could def feel myself recovering from the strict diet (even one of the black chin hairs grew back as I noticed 2 days ago!). My question is: Was it stupid to ttc in March after throwing in the diet towel, did I wreck my chance at a girl? I know, you probably can’t tell Next question then: Should we skip the April attempt so I can be longer on the diet + exercise again? I’m 39, DH is 50. We don’t have much time to lose, but since this will be our last chance at a girl, I want it to be 100%... :/

Thank you so much, I’m so sorry I’m such a lost cause!!!

[atomic sagebrush]

At 39 you can't be skipping months for any reason.

You need to loosen up however much it takes to get a diet you can stick to. Trying to be overly strict is a recipe for failure (as you've seen) as you get into a binge/purge cycle where you overeat and then try to be really strict. Aim at a middle ground you can stick to and TTC ASAP.

[WelcomeBaby]

Atomic, thank you so much for your very comforting reply. Just got a surprise BFP so it’s all done and decided now. Luckily, the pregnancy hormones are keeping me afloat right now or I would probably have jumped from the closest high-rise already. (Well, that was before your reply! I really felt the same about skipping months and maybe this boy was just meant to be!) Still kicking myself though that I ended up being one of the women who swayed too hard for too long, couldn’t tolerate it anymore, went back to their old ways and promptly conceived an opposite.
I’m also quite sure I ovulated in the left-left-right pattern, and yes, of course I’m going by ovary pain (not ovulation pain) here. I know you don’t believe in this, but let me explain. In every cycle, I feel a dull pain on one side starting around CD8 or 9 when the follicle housing the dominant egg starts to grow. So I have every reason to assume this is the dominant egg. After ovulation, the one-sided pain stays the same for another week or so but then it’s most likely the corpus luteum which can measure up to 6cm (no wonder I feel it!).
And in this case, I felt this type of pain (growing follicle, corpus luteum, not “ovulation itself”) in a left-left-right pattern in Jan-Feb-March. It also makes perfect sense - after my strict sway the left ovary stepped up to the plate in Jan and Feb and after 6 weeks off the diet, the right one came back in full-force, although in that cycle I WAS back on the diet. There seems to be some kind of late effect or even “post factum” effect of the diet, meaning the 2-3 weeks immediately before conception - the follicular phase of the conception cycle - matters less than the weeks before that. Could this be a thing?

Oh, and I found that left-left-right study that you sometimes mention. I wanted to go over it to find some detail that would make me a completely different case and give me hope. I found quite the opposite. The participants all took Clomid! One of the strongest sway tactics there is! And still had boys 76% of the time! Quite shocking, and it probably ups my personal chances at a boy to 95%.

Of course I’m clutching at straws - maybe I’m wrong about some major aspect here and / or might be incredibly lucky and still get a girl etc. - but no. I really need to keep in mind that what I did was pretty much a textbook blue sway. I hope one day I’ll be able to forgive myself that I came THIS close to my daughter and threw it all away for a bunch of chocolate bars and two pints of ice cream.

Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for all your support, the detailed info and your encouragement. The truth is, I would never have been so open about struggling and failing (and as it looks like now, conceiving an opposite) if you hadn't created this incredible and very rare kind of inclusive, no-blame, warm-hearted, level-headed atmosphere in this forum. I will post my sway soon.

[atomic sagebrush]

Huge congrats and so sorry about the mixup with the post.

I understand that nothing I can tell you about ovary pain and ovulation will make you change your mind, BUT please keep in mind that your ovary develops 15-20 eggs a month in both sides and only releases one. The swollen but unreleased eggs can cause pain too and for many people it's worse on the side that didn't ovulate. Ovulation releases pressure in the ovary while the ovary that does not ovulate, still has the pressure of lots of unreleased eggs. we know this because tons of people have felt severe one sided pain only to find out that they had ovulated from the other side entirely. But of course nothing I can say will disabuse you of this notion.

I am not gonna speculate about potential hypothetical effects. We don't even know that the LLR is a real thing. It's one study.

It's always best to prepare for an opposite but I hope you're pleasantly surprised! Good luck and pink dust coming your way!

[WelcomeBaby]

Thank you so, so much! Well, the main thing is I'M HAVING ANOTHER CHILD and I keep reminding myself what a blessing this is!!!!
Yeah, I'll be doing my best not to obsess over every little thing and I'll keep you and everybody here posted!!

[atomic sagebrush]

please do! congrats and pink dust headed your way!

[WelcomeBaby]

Thank you, I'll accept any and every pink dust I can get!!
After hours of research I must say that just like you, virtually all serious OB/GYNs seem to think that ovary pain is really and truly not related to side of ovulation. Wow! Overall, I have become much better at not obsessing BUT there is one thing that haunts me so I'd like to ask you one final question. It's about the two chin hairs that grew back in the conception cycle. Yes, I do feel stupid asking you this, but I know that many of us here watch their chin hairs closely and I thought your opinion might be interesting for everybody.
I used to have 2 coarse black chin hairs that I plucked 1-2 times a month. After a mild LE PCOS sway since 2017, I started to sway more thoroughly (really sticking to the limits every day) in October 2018. I plucked the chin hairs in November and then noticed they never grew back. I deduced they were hormonal - not genetic - and had been eliminated by swaying.
In March, the conception cycle, around the time of implantation I noticed they had grown back. They were thin and light brown, not coarse and black, however, but a lot longer than the others and must have been growing for around 2 weeks. Had I noticed them before our attempt, I would not have ttc'ed.
I realized some time ago that I'm convinced I'm pregnant with another boy just because of these 2 chin hairs alone (not even counting the possible left-left-right pattern). I figure that they grew back because this cycle was hormonally much stronger and more testosterone-heavy than the 4 cycles before, and that this probably made me conceive a boy.
But of course... I also realize that it's utterly ridiculous to conclude the gender of a baby from TWO CHIN HAIRS (that weren't even as coarse and black as they had been before swaying!). Only that I'm not listening to myself. What do you think? Do the 2 chin hairs point to something hormonal going on that guarantees me a boy or can you totally put this next chapter of obsessing over a stupid detail to rest? Thank you so much in advance!!

[atomic sagebrush]

well, I'll tell you, I had a chin hair for a long time that went away on diet and I still got a boy.

I would just take it as that they'd grown in much finer, a good sign that you still weren't where you were hormonally and not worry about it since you can't change it. I would not have had you take a month off for that! If you read SoulCysters or other PCOS websites (some of whom really struggle with facial hair) they still have girls! One of the most famous bearded ladies in history, Josephine Clofullia, had a daughter. Please don't stress about these kinds of things - we talk about them to help us unravel the mysteries of gender ratio, and NOT because they tell us who will have a boy and who will have a girl.

[WelcomeBaby]

Aaaaaahh PERFECT!!! Just what I needed to hear! Chickened out of asking if you would have recommended not to ttc that month and now I'm SO HAPPY that you said no, you wouldn't have!! Now on to enjoying this pregnancy - thank you so much!

Oh, and at first I thought I don't know that Clofullia lady, but she must have taken Clomid to conceive, until I looked her up and concluded that Clomid can't really have been that wide-spread in her day and age

[atomic sagebrush]

Yes famous bearded ladies are not so much a thing nowadays, but in her time she was quite famous.