cut-off....abstinence or frequent BD??? cut off or BD AF-O?

[mkarntz1980]

So I am not attempting O+12....not gonna do it. I have read that if you cant do O+12 which produces most girls, next popular is BD AF-O because it keeps sperm count low. I have heard NOT to do a cut-off as ph can rise anytime, and supposably their are many shettles opposites. Im just wondering for the cut-offs that didnt work....who says they REALLY knew that they were doing the correct cut-off? also doesnt 4 day cut-off sway boy? what is the best number cut-off to get a girl? 2-3 day cut-off? Is abstinence or frequent BD the way to go for cut off? If you did frequent BD, would it be frequent RELEASE or actually BD everyday untill the cutoff?

[Another princess]

When i conceived my daughter we BDed frm end of AF til 2.5 before ovulation - therefore BDed without protection on day 5,6,7 x2, 9 and 10. I have since read that frequent bding can increase your ph and can be a disadvantage because you can have more sperm waiting for the egg to arrive, however it worked for me when combined with other girl sway factors. I am also interested to hear if its best to bd with protection on those earlier bds b4 the cut off too.

[atomic sagebrush]

The thing is, there is no way for us to truly KNOW what is best. So you gotta go with what your gut is telling you.

I have heard from A LOT of people who DTD in all different patterns and have children of both genders. If you think about it, there are 6 billion people walking around out there and they were conceived in all kinds of different ways with different BD patterns because DTD is what people seem to do best LOL. Highly unlikely that all men were conceived with one shot at O and all women were conceived with 14 days of abstaining and then either a cut-off or a perfect O+12.

Cut-off, both with frequent BD and less frequent didn't seem to work for me, but you are darn right that I wasn't careful, I didn't chart, so I have no real way of knowing. Also with my first son (DTD when I thought I should still be safe and whoops!) my husband was only 20 years old and probably had megasperm and was certainly not abstaining!

My gut tells me that for a girl, the "best" way to go would be abstaining with a cutoff, but I'm not 100% sure that's as safe as I would like, esp. for people over 35. Frequent release (and it has to be FREQUENT or it will backfire) does lower sperm count but also probably raises t levels somewhat. I would release OUTSIDE the body and not ejaculate inside, or else use a condom. Maybe a spermicide condom! And then when your cutoff rolls around, DTD just once.

[Coccinelle33]

if my dh would do it i would have him abstain for 7 days and then do a 1 shot 2 day cut off. but he wont no way no how. he has to do something to get off (tmi sorry) every day so for this sway im going to try and do it as much as we can as soon as af is done and try for a 2-3 day cut off. im also going to use spermicide on all non-attempt days.

[pinksapphire]

My gut tells me that for a girl, the "best" way to go would be abstaining with a cutoff, but I'm not 100% sure that's as safe as I would like, esp. for people over 35. Frequent release (and it has to be FREQUENT or it will backfire) does lower sperm count but also probably raises t levels somewhat. I would release OUTSIDE the body and not ejaculate inside, or else use a condom. Maybe a spermicide condom! And then when your cutoff rolls around, DTD just once.

Can I ask what you mean about not as safe as you would like esp. for ppl over 35?

FWIW, we DTD once about 2.5 days prior to O and then the day after O and conceived our angel DD. We did frequent release (outside of me and only inside the last day) up until O day and got DS2. Used Pre-seed w/ conception of DS1 when I didn't know that Pre-Seed was boy friendly.

I would think abstinence would work best, IMO, but everyone's different including myself b/c that was 7 years ago!

[Another princess]

Atomic, how many days do u recommend DH abstains for if hes over 35? Thanks

[atomic sagebrush]

Can I ask what you mean about not as safe as you would like esp. for ppl over 35?

FWIW, we DTD once about 2.5 days prior to O and then the day after O and conceived our angel DD. We did frequent release (outside of me and only inside the last day) up until O day and got DS2. Used Pre-seed w/ conception of DS1 when I didn't know that Pre-Seed was boy friendly.

I would think abstinence would work best, IMO, but everyone's different including myself b/c that was 7 years ago!

For me personally, I think it's ~best~ to use fresh sperm and fresh egg if you are over 35. The egg in many older women does not survive past 12 hours and even though I haven't looked very hard for info about this, it doesn't seem beyond imagination to assume that as the egg ages it may not be able to divide as well once fertilized, or weed out the bad sperm like it can when it's very fresh. And abstinence causes more bad sperm, this we know, and there is a tenative link to increased rate of birth defects (you may remember this info came out about a year ago.) Since people over 35 are at increased risk of birth defects to begin with, it feels unsafe to me to advise anyone over 35 to abstain/O+12.

[atomic sagebrush]

Atomic, how many days do u recommend DH abstains for if hes over 35? Thanks

I wouldn't abstain if he was over 35, I would do frequent release. If he isn't able to do DTD every day, then have him release as much as possible in the days leading up to your attempt, then once the morning of your attempt that you toss and then DTD again and use the second batch.

I am probably just being overly conservative and if you guys ~want~ to abstain and your DH is over 35, it will probably be just fine, I simply think that erring on the side of safety is preferable.

[babydust]

I agree with atomic, it's better to err on the side of caution. I have no studies to back me up, but my own theory is that with O + 12 to O + 20, the egg starts to degenerate no matter what age you are. But at 35 and older the egg for most starts to degenerate faster then with someone younger...the eggs just don't last as long, probably not more than O + 12 in some women. If an egg, that is already degenrating, gets fertilized by sperm (and in older men, their might be even more abnormal sperm to begin with), it's just asking for trouble. Usually you won't even get pregnant...sperm that is abnormal usually do not fertlize eggs that are abnormal or degenerate. Possibly making O + 12 a harder method to get pregnant with. BUT, sometimes the abnormal sperm does fertilize the degenerating egg, which could, in my opinion, lead to a m/c or god forbid birth defects .

I don't know, this is ALL just MY personal take on the whole thing, so please take this all with a grain of salt. But to me, it makes sense.

So, even in younger women trying to conceive with abstinance and O + 12 I do feel there is a higher risk of m/c, even though there is nothing at all to back that up..I don't think, unless there are new studies out there now? I'm sure the risk is very very low, and everyone trying this method is just fine. But like atomic said, I also like to err on the side of extreme caution.

That paired with the fact that timing is the least important factor, just pick the timing you feel most comfortable with.

That being said, I don't think the next best thing after O + 12 is bd through, I think it's abstinance with a cut off. The reason why Shettle's might work is may or may not be because x swim faster than y sperm, like he originally though. They probably swim at the same speed, (but who really knows....x sperm ARE bigger than y sperm, so it would make sense for them to be a little slower, just my thoughts though.) It might be because you are avoiding O day and are better able to kee pH low at and around O. You are able to do this because you now have more control over your pH since you are not dtd right on O. You don't have to worry about your combined pH, all you have to worry about is lowing your own cm. Remember, Dh's sperm have to be at least a pH of 7.0, your pH has to at least be around 4.0. The combined pH is going to be at least 5.5 at that is too high, you'll have to lower it. If you dtd right around O time and pH and you can't get your pH down fast enough, it is more likely that y sperm will get to the egg first. You can use replens or aci jel to lower pH 1 hour before O to try and prevent this from happening, but it I think it's too risky. Just my opinion of course.

Ok, so, dtd raises T levels, so if you choose to do frequent, always have dH release. I think absitnance is better (as long as you didn't conceive your ds's with abstinance), and as long as you are 35 or younger.

When you dtd through O, you are dtd right on ovulation most times. I know, for me, it is hard enough to keep my pH low during O...then add to that dtd or even having Dh releasing and inserting with a syringe, it's too much, it would be too hard to keep my pH low.

If you really want to do frequent through O, I think the next best thing for you, instead of doing that, would be do dtd from the end of AF until you get a O opk. You will probably end up with a short cut off (1 or 1.5 days), but you are not dtd on O and can control your pH much better because remember... all you have to do is lower the cm that is already there instead of having to lower the combined cm and semen.

The only way I would say to do frequent through O is if you've tried the frequent until a + opk and are not getting pregnant.

As for abstinance vs. frequent: I would do the opposite of what got you your boys. However, if you don't know, I would go for abstinance, I think it sways more towards girl. But what atomic said makes a lot of sense, if you are over 35, you should probably go for frequent release either from AF until attempt or at the very least for a few days before attempt.

Sorry this is so long!! haha. Haven't had the time to really write about any of this in a while, so it was nice to talk about it all again, lol. Hope I was able to help in some small way

[atomic sagebrush]

I agree babydust, the fact is that X sperm ARE bigger, period. Whether they live longer or not or if pH affects them in any different way are all speculation, but X sperm DO have extra DNA in them (the arm of the X on the X chromosome makes them 1-2% bigger than Y sperm are depending on the individual sperm). And for them to swim the same speed as Y, well, things that are bigger tend to move more slowly and take more force to overcome inertia and get going to begin with. Conversely, things that are smaller may have a tougher time pushing through things that are heavy or thick (like non-egg-white CM).